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***micool132*** · 03-27-2024, 12:37 PM

03-27-2024, 12:33 PMyosh Wrote: @scudmuffin19 I get a sense that you are highlighting contrarian views simply to go against the bloc and consensus. While absolutism isn’t something that should always be a permanent state, I don’t believe this is really the great example you are thinking that it is when trying to highlight a weakness in the bloc or anything akin to that.

I agree with yosh

*JURT* · 03-27-2024, 12:39 PM

03-27-2024, 12:37 PMmicool132 Wrote: I agree with yosh

You're going to win the Cup

scudmuffin19 · 03-27-2024, 12:42 PM

03-27-2024, 12:33 PMyosh Wrote: @scudmuffin19 I get a sense that you are highlighting contrarian views simply to go against the bloc and consensus. While absolutism isn’t something that should always be a permanent state, I don’t believe this is really the great example you are thinking that it is when trying to highlight a weakness in the bloc or anything akin to that.

i mean tbh if both HOs could admit the question is an automatic league-wide DND if you answer no. They can say its not all they want but the evidence speaks against them. If you answer no, with the current culture that leadership here has worked ruthlessly hard to foster, you will not be drafted in this league, and continuing to publicly deny that is itself lying to the general population of the league and therefore conduct detrimental to the league itself, and I would therefore call for an impeachment of all HO and Commissioners in both the J and SHL. Honesty is all i ask for. Anytime someone answers no to that question in the league, that exact comment is posted in the general chats of both J and SHL HO and then distributed to the GMs of both leagues as a PSA not to draft that user, and then in turn they crucify and mock that user in a space free from the public eye and any consequence.

***Rankle*** · 03-27-2024, 12:49 PM

03-27-2024, 12:42 PMscudmuffin19 Wrote: i mean tbh if both HOs could admit the question is an automatic league-wide DND if you answer no. They can say its not all they want but the evidence speaks against them. If you answer no, with the current culture that leadership here has worked ruthlessly hard to foster, you will not be drafted in this league, and continuing to publicly deny that is itself lying to the general population of the league and therefore conduct detrimental to the league itself, and I would therefore call for an impeachment of all HO and Commissioners in both the J and SHL. Honesty is all i ask for. Anytime someone answers no to that question in the league, that exact comment is posted in the general chats of both J and SHL HO and then distributed to the GMs of both leagues as a PSA not to draft that user, and then in turn they crucify and mock that user in a space free from the public eye and any consequence.

Do you legitimately think people that feel confident enough to publicly post bigoted opinions should be accepted in this league?

Chomp Chomp Water Dog Barracuda

Scarecrow Noises Scarecrows

***Rangerjase*** · 03-27-2024, 12:50 PM

03-27-2024, 12:42 PMscudmuffin19 Wrote: i mean tbh if both HOs could admit the question is an automatic league-wide DND if you answer no. They can say its not all they want but the evidence speaks against them. If you answer no, with the current culture that leadership here has worked ruthlessly hard to foster, you will not be drafted in this league, and continuing to publicly deny that is itself lying to the general population of the league and therefore conduct detrimental to the league itself, and I would therefore call for an impeachment of all HO and Commissioners in both the J and SHL. Honesty is all i ask for. Anytime someone answers no to that question in the league, that exact comment is posted in the general chats of both J and SHL HO and then distributed to the GMs of both leagues as a PSA not to draft that user, and then in turn they crucify and mock that user in a space free from the public eye and any consequence.

I think this says a lot more about you than it does about me

*JURT* · 03-27-2024, 12:52 PM

03-27-2024, 12:42 PMscudmuffin19 Wrote: If both HOs could admit the question is an automatic league-wide DND if you answer no.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. HO doesn't have access to the GMs DND lists. If it is, it's by the GMs choice to put them there. Not sure what HO has to do with this.

03-27-2024, 12:42 PMscudmuffin19 Wrote: Anytime someone answers no to that question in the league, that exact comment is posted in the general chats of both J and SHL HO and then distributed to the GMs of both leagues as a PSA not to draft that user

Interested Prospects questions come from the GMs and they are free to share their opinions about prospects for an upcoming draft amongst themselves

03-27-2024, 12:42 PMscudmuffin19 Wrote: and then in turn they crucify and mock that user in a space free from the public eye and any consequence.

something something inevitable, sarcastic comments etc.

*Grum* · 03-27-2024, 12:53 PM

03-27-2024, 12:00 PMMuerto Wrote: I was offended at having to choose between waffles and pancakes

What did you pick though?

***sköldpaddor*** · 03-27-2024, 12:55 PM

Hey! So I thought it would be good if somebody gave a good faith answer to this rather than getting all riled up.

As you undoubtedly know, the pride jersey question is Nevada's. It's there because it does some screening for me, as many have mentioned. But it is our question. Other people are welcome to draft whoever they want, that question is there because it's a very important issue for me as a queer person and as someone who's looking to build an environment where queer people can feel safe.

I am not looking for fawning, over the top answers on that question. The "I will wear the jersey and bring four more of my own from home that I'll sign and dedicate my life to the cause" answers are great, but all I am looking for is a signal that the person answering the question is not so disgusted by the existence of queer people that they won't even pretend to wear a pretend jersey for pretend warmups. "Sure" is a totally fine answer. "I am militantly averse to rainbow capitalism but I will support the cause in another way" is also a totally fine answer but I haven't seen that one yet.

I would never, ever add a "what are your political beliefs" question because this isn't about politics at all! Being queer is not in any way a political statement, and I don't think wanting to provide a welcoming environment for queer people is a political statement either. This is me, as a queer woman who has existed in sports spaces for more than a decade now, using a question in this teeny little niche internet corner, to try and make sure that my little micro-community is the kind of place that queer people can feel safe. That's really all there is to it. People don't have to be over the top. They don't have to wax poetic about how much they love gay people. All I am looking for is the bare minimum of "does not hate gay people so much that they don't want to have to acknowledge our existence."

In conclusion, if I have to make some homophobes feel unwelcome to make queer people feel safe, that is a deal I will make any day of the week. I hope this helps - the question isn't there to give me reasons to make fun of people, it's genuinely there so that I can see any immediate glaring red flags. And if it helps by showing other LGBTQ+ folks who's absolutely not a safe person, that's just an extra perk.

*Reno* · 03-27-2024, 12:58 PM

03-27-2024, 12:42 PMscudmuffin19 Wrote: i mean tbh if both HOs could admit the question is an automatic league-wide DND if you answer no. They can say its not all they want but the evidence speaks against them. If you answer no, with the current culture that leadership here has worked ruthlessly hard to foster, you will not be drafted in this league, and continuing to publicly deny that is itself lying to the general population of the league and therefore conduct detrimental to the league itself, and I would therefore call for an impeachment of all HO and Commissioners in both the J and SHL. Honesty is all i ask for. Anytime someone answers no to that question in the league, that exact comment is posted in the general chats of both J and SHL HO and then distributed to the GMs of both leagues as a PSA not to draft that user, and then in turn they crucify and mock that user in a space free from the public eye and any consequence.

Shocking concept: People dont want to draft those who are openly homophobic. It's not rocket science.

***SchwarzNarr*** · 03-27-2024, 01:00 PM

03-27-2024, 12:42 PMscudmuffin19 Wrote: i mean tbh if both HOs could admit the question is an automatic league-wide DND if you answer no. They can say its not all they want but the evidence speaks against them. If you answer no, with the current culture that leadership here has worked ruthlessly hard to foster, you will not be drafted in this league, and continuing to publicly deny that is itself lying to the general population of the league and therefore conduct detrimental to the league itself, and I would therefore call for an impeachment of all HO and Commissioners in both the J and SHL. Honesty is all i ask for. Anytime someone answers no to that question in the league, that exact comment is posted in the general chats of both J and SHL HO and then distributed to the GMs of both leagues as a PSA not to draft that user, and then in turn they crucify and mock that user in a space free from the public eye and any consequence.

K.4: "Personal attacks, excessive/malicious trolling, spamming, language/rhetoric that includes hate speech (including but not limited to racism, homophobia, ableism), or any comments made that belittle members of a certain religious, ethnic, or oppressed group will not be tolerated."

The rulebook states that homophobia will not be tolerated. Teams are perfectly within their rights to not draft someone they feel will not contribute to the safe space that they have created. Teams have also drafted users who have chosen to not answer that question. It doesn't automatically preclude anyone from being drafted, that is not a league policy, nor in any rulebook, nor will it be in any rulebook. If you'd like to suggest a change that requires every player to be drafted, please feel free to hit up my DMs with a solid rule proposal I can bring to Head Office for discussion.

That said, my DMs are always open to anyone in the league, who would like to discuss policies, rule changes or suggestions, or anything they feel they have conflict with at the J level. This is not a guarantee that I will side with every single view brought to me, but I pledge to listen to all humans who come to me in a reasonable manner.

***sve7en*** · 03-27-2024, 01:04 PM

03-27-2024, 12:42 PMscudmuffin19 Wrote: i mean tbh if both HOs could admit the question is an automatic league-wide DND if you answer no.

Literally we ran out of space in the J last season and the person who answered no still found a team. Why are you so desperate to step to bat for homophobes?

***boom*** · 03-27-2024, 01:07 PM

03-27-2024, 11:59 AMscudmuffin19 Wrote: what happens when a prospect answers no to a specific question? from recent experience it sends half the league into a shitstorm about the issue and puts the user on 3/4 of the J team's DND list. Also, this IP thread should just be a general survey of player goals, etc. not a bunch of "do you believe in pride night" questions that I know alot of y'all will crucify someone for answer "no". Why intentionally set a user up for league-wide bullying like that if not for you and your co-commissioners enjoyment in the HO servers.

I’m an SHL GM and I read that question because we have queer and trans users in our LR (including me) and with the shitshow that this past year+ has been my first priority is their safety and comfort. They have to deal with seeing enough debates of their existence in the outside world, their fake hockey community should be an escape from that and I’d love to live in a world where real pro sports were anywhere near as accepting as the SHL is.

***SDCore*** · 03-27-2024, 01:13 PM

03-27-2024, 12:42 PMscudmuffin19 Wrote: i mean tbh if both HOs could admit the question is an automatic league-wide DND if you answer no. They can say its not all they want but the evidence speaks against them. If you answer no, with the current culture that leadership here has worked ruthlessly hard to foster, you will not be drafted in this league, and continuing to publicly deny that is itself lying to the general population of the league and therefore conduct detrimental to the league itself, and I would therefore call for an impeachment of all HO and Commissioners in both the J and SHL. Honesty is all i ask for. Anytime someone answers no to that question in the league, that exact comment is posted in the general chats of both J and SHL HO and then distributed to the GMs of both leagues as a PSA not to draft that user, and then in turn they crucify and mock that user in a space free from the public eye and any consequence.

As a former Commish, I second the impeachment of all of HO in the league. Let's go back to the archaic time of previous iterations of this league, where homophobia, racism, and non-inclusion were rampant. Where people were banned on the regular for being awful to one another. The current SHL leadership is way to good at their job and making the site a more progressive and safe space for all. They are way to good at putting the site in the best place for it to succeed and moving the league along in a positive and good way. They have fostered not only the most healthy sim league in terms of numbers but also innovations...

Let's out them, because right now we have it too good... Smart plan.

*RashfordU* · 03-27-2024, 01:14 PM

03-27-2024, 11:39 AMscudmuffin19 Wrote: Title speaks for itself.

There's been a lot of controversy stemming from a certain tribe of questions being included in the Interested Prospects PT for incoming rookies, and i've come to the conclusion shared by many within the league that league-wide PTs should not include these sort of questions. Asking questions that potentially alienate users based on their beliefs and opinions is not a healthy practice for user retention, especially on new creates. Questions in this category should stay within scouting convos that are personally had between prospect and the GM or scout, but not as a general survey that is commonly weaponized and mocked within the HO and GM servers.

I wonder if it would be better to have it as a Google Form, with GMs being the only one with Access to the answers

***boom*** · 03-27-2024, 01:16 PM

03-27-2024, 01:14 PMRashfordU Wrote: I wonder if it would be better to have it as a Google Form, with GMs being the only one with Access to the answers

Again, as an SHL GM - those responses can be informative for me as a 5-second check and then I don’t have to chase down any players and ask them again. I don’t see a problem with the current system, I’d say at most MAYBE 1 user per season has a suspect response and it’s usually someone I already knew about.

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