Quote:In honor of your team’s Pride Night, you’re being asked to wear a pride-themed warmup jersey to be auctioned off for the benefit of a local LGBTQ+ youth charity. How do you respond? Please stop with this bullsh**. This is a fake online hockey league and I don't have to be overly participative to be a friend to all people.
As someone who strongly believes in the idea that hockey is for everyone and that demonstrative actions like having pride themes for fake hockey leagues does much of the same that it does for the NHL and other leagues, this (and other behavior such as taking constant shots at teams that feel similarly to me) would be what I was referring to.
As someone who strongly believes in the idea that hockey is for everyone and that demonstrative actions like having pride themes for fake hockey leagues does much of the same that it does for the NHL and other leagues, this (and other behavior such as taking constant shots at teams that feel similarly to me) would be what I was referring to.
I agree with you but I also need to bring up the alternative - this person doesn't get picked up by a team and is essentially blacklisted by the SHL. The only outcome is furthering the divide and them not learning anything about or interacting with anyone in the LGBTQ community. The player you brought up was spoken to before signing and believe or not, people are complicated and might have a different opinion than yours. Without interacting with different communities and people of differing opinions nobody would change or progress. We don't judge, hockey is for *everyone* right? It doesn't just go one way. We can be frank about what is acceptable behaviour while not pushing people out.
In my entire experience with Maine, both as player and coGM, there was a single incident in our LR with a newly drafted player and homophobia. I booted them from the LR immediately and they were dropped the next morning (only because it was late I hadn't heard back from HO about proper procedure).
Saying that we are anything but accepting is hard not to take personal. Has there ever been an instance that someone from Maine's FO drags one of your teams in the forum, completely unprompted? I just don't get it, you can not like us, I don't really care, but why bring it here for no reason? Grow up.
07-19-2024, 02:01 PMTheGreatToeJam Wrote: I agree with you but I also need to bring up the alternative - this person doesn't get picked up by a team and is essentially blacklisted by the SHL. The only outcome is furthering the divide and them not learning anything about or interacting with anyone in the LGBTQ community. The player you brought up was spoken to before signing and believe or not, people are complicated and might have a different opinion than yours. Without interacting with different communities and people of differing opinions nobody would change or progress. We don't judge, hockey is for *everyone* right? It doesn't just go one way. We can be frank about what is acceptable behaviour while not pushing people out.
Very simply, when someone decides to not oblige by the ideas of tolerance, they are not obligated to receive the same. The paradox of tolerance is not real, rooted in the idea that tolerance is some moral and not a social construct. It's treat to give second chances, or even third chances, but when someone is against hockey being for everyone, they no longer fall under "hockey is for everyone".
Quote:In my entire experience with Maine, both as player and coGM, there was a single incident in our LR with a newly drafted player and homophobia. I booted them from the LR immediately and they were dropped the next morning (only because it was late I hadn't heard back from HO about proper procedure).
Saying that we are anything but accepting is hard not to take personal.
I didn't say that Maine was at all a problem here. In the same way I'm not saying Ottawa was because they roster MacCabes. I said both teams have someone that has issues with pride, which is explicitly true based on the public post that was made. This is not a shot at a team, and never was delivered as such. It was largely in humor, and I wasn't making some grand reveal or sweeping accusations about the character of the organization or the people there.
Quote:Has there ever been an instance that someone from Maine's FO drags one of your teams in the forum, completely unprompted?
It was also factually untrue, and Krash and I hashed that out.
Fun fact, as much as it seems like people affiliated with Maine believe this, I don't have issue with y'all. I'm not fully sure why you all need to come out swinging like this, I'm not trying to start shit and you guys would know if I was.
07-19-2024, 02:20 PMsve7en Wrote: Very simply, when someone decides to not oblige by the ideas of tolerance, they are not obligated to receive the same. The paradox of tolerance is not real, rooted in the idea that tolerance is some moral and not a social construct. It's treat to give second chances, or even third chances, but when someone is against hockey being for everyone, they no longer fall under "hockey is for everyone".
I didn't say that Maine was at all a problem here. In the same way I'm not saying Ottawa was because they roster MacCabes. I said both teams have someone that has issues with pride, which is explicitly true based on the public post that was made. This is not a shot at a team, and never was delivered as such. It was largely in humor, and I wasn't making some grand reveal or sweeping accusations about the character of the organization or the people there.
It was also factually untrue, and Krash and I hashed that out.
Fun fact, as much as it seems like people affiliated with Maine believe this, I don't have issue with y'all. I'm not fully sure why you all need to come out swinging like this, I'm not trying to start shit and you guys would know if I was.
I don't think we're ever going to completely agree here and that's okay. I believe that hate begets hate, you aren't going to make the world a more accepting place by pushing people out because they don't think the same as you.
The thread you linked from Krash was in response to you, so not unprompted, and as he said in his response - he was speaking for himself and not on behalf of Maine. We haven't made backhanded comments about you or your teams here and we will continue not to do so. But you do you.
07-19-2024, 04:15 PM(This post was last modified: 07-19-2024, 04:34 PM by Grapehead. Edited 1 time in total.)
07-19-2024, 03:29 PMTheGreatToeJam Wrote: I don't think we're ever going to completely agree here and that's okay. I believe that hate begets hate, you aren't going to make the world a more accepting place by pushing people out because they don't think the same as you.
EDIT: Thanks to HFFO for pointing out that I was confused about the subject of the post I replied to here. My general point stands, but I don't feel I want to direct it toward the original user. Just leaving as is though.
Hate begets hate... sure, but is it really "hate" to simply not want someone around who makes comments that invalidate other users in the community? Nobody's calling for the death penalty, just that "hey, if you aren't going to stop saying hateful shit, we're not going to continue to welcome you here." There has never been a single case of someone getting a permanent ban on their first offense, and acting as though being asked to cut the shit is the same as being ostracized is just plain disingenuous. Making room for people who repeatedly refuse to control their behaviour is just unacceptable, and not actually a sign of a welcoming place. Unfortunately, there are a ton of places people like this can get together to hate "the gays" if they want, but thankfully this community has continually stood up against that kind of behaviour.
07-19-2024, 04:15 PMGrapehead Wrote: Hate begets hate... sure, but is it really "hate" to simply not want someone around who makes comments that invalidate other users in the community? Nobody's calling for the death penalty, just that "hey, if you aren't going to stop saying hateful shit, we're not going to continue to welcome you here." There has never been a single case of someone getting a permanent ban on their first offense, and acting as though being asked to cut the shit is the same as being ostracized is just plain disingenuous. Making room for people who repeatedly refuse to control their behaviour is just unacceptable, and not actually a sign of a welcoming place. Unfortunately, there are a ton of places people like this can get together to hate "the gays" if they want, but thankfully this community has continually stood up against that kind of behaviour.
He's not referring to the individual in this punishment.
“The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again. ... There are neither beginnings nor endings to the Wheel of Time. But it was a beginning.”
07-19-2024, 04:15 PMGrapehead Wrote: Hate begets hate... sure, but is it really "hate" to simply not want someone around who makes comments that invalidate other users in the community? Nobody's calling for the death penalty, just that "hey, if you aren't going to stop saying hateful shit, we're not going to continue to welcome you here." There has never been a single case of someone getting a permanent ban on their first offense, and acting as though being asked to cut the shit is the same as being ostracized is just plain disingenuous. Making room for people who repeatedly refuse to control their behaviour is just unacceptable, and not actually a sign of a welcoming place. Unfortunately, there are a ton of places people like this can get together to hate "the gays" if they want, but thankfully this community has continually stood up against that kind of behaviour.
This. Calling out homophobes is not the origin of the "hate begets hate" chain reaction, and you only have one other cheek to turn. If you turn the other cheek, give people a chance to make the right choice this time, and they fail to apologize and just hit you again anyways, you fight back. That's the hate that is begotten, not the hate that begets more.
07-19-2024, 04:23 PMJURT Wrote: This. Calling out homophobes is not the origin of the "hate begets hate" chain reaction, and you only have one other cheek to turn. If you turn the other cheek, give people a chance to make the right choice this time, and they fail to apologize and just hit you again anyways, you fight back. That's the hate that is begotten, not the hate that begets more.
I was referring to a different incident separate from the one this punishment thread is about. You're definitely right though, there are lines you don't cross.
07-19-2024, 04:36 PMTheGreatToeJam Wrote: I was referring to a different incident separate from the one this punishment thread is about. You're definitely right though, there are lines you don't cross.
Why anyone is defending fated at this point is ridiculous. Almost every leader in this league has tried to get the. To stop, yet it seems some groups are advocating for something I just don't understand.
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