While it is absolutely true that 99% of the time, the co gets the head spot if they want it, I don't really think that's a bad thing. I joke about "oh GM apps are silly it's just gonna be the co that gets it" but like that should be the case. Nobody is more qualified for the head spot than that person's co-GM, and often that head GM is actively planning for their co to become their replacement. Not always the case, but I do think it's safe to say that a head GM never intends for somebody outside of the team to take the spot. Teams have a long term plan and bringing in an entirely different person to head a team, qualified as that person may be, really can't be a better option if there is a ready and willing co-GM wanting to perpetuate the existing plans.
Heres the thing about the co spot though, the old gm gets to chose and they arent necessarly the most qualified especially if from the outside it was clear the team wasnt run well
I think a problem we see across many leagues with HO is a failure to view anything through anyone else’s eyes except their own. If you see something differently than the way HO does, then you are wrong and you will be gaslit about it. There is no attempt to see things from the perspective of managers or the community at large, just whatever the small group at the top think. While yes, is it their job to make those decisions on what they believe, what makes it worse is when HO makes a decision others disagree with, they refuse to even acknowledge the feelings and perspectives of others, and then they just treat you like you’re crazy. Just had this happen to me and my team in the SSL and there is some overlap between board members here and there. Just something I noticed that i think HO can work on because having a ruling not go your way can already be frustrating/upsetting/disheartening, but then having HO completely disregard and invalidate your feelings and experiences makes it worse.
04-28-2025, 12:43 PMsliceruser Wrote: Heres the thing about the co spot though, the old gm gets to chose and they arent necessarly the most qualified especially if from the outside it was clear the team wasnt run well
It’s been two weeks and you continue to run with the script that only benefits your narrative.
Maybe try internalizing your own actions as to why HO even had a reason to consider other options. God forbid someone mention you have done anything wrong… I mean, fuck… between baiting and shit posting relentlessly there couldn’t bet be a reason there??
Oh that’s right… You thought you needed to be the knight to protect Eddie a couple weeks ago. You thought protecting Eddie meant you could threaten to put me in a grave if I went public about any thing, referencing you being the only one with empathy in the scenario. Dude you couldn’t be more wrong in your assessment at the moment.
Each one of us deal with life circumstances, good and bad, on a daily basis. Did you ever think to ask before trying to use Eddie’s parents as part of your argument of his decisions? Did you know that Eddie regretted the decisions he made in negotiating that trade? You ever think why?
Eddie knew that I was both negotiating not just for a good friend, but with a good friend. So however people want to spin it, the reason he came to me was knowing he had my trust and trust in Corey. While looking back, yup it would have been nice to know what wasn’t disclosed. That’s on me and clearly learned a lesson that I can’t trust any competing GMs even if they are friends.
In mediation, I couldn’t ask for anything of it because you guys negotiated in a way that didn’t break any rules and that was by your choice... These were my words. Which is totally alright. However, think about it from my perspective if you care to understand at all… I had a friend that I had stood up for since day one when he got the GM job (Eddie) negotiating with me for a friend (Corey) that he knew I also enjoyed immensely. Corey was the one who brought me back to life in S54 and I owe much of the way I care about this community to him, unlike how I acted in the early S30s.
Who wouldn’t be pissed off though? We loved Saint as well, so we felt if we were giving up someone we enjoyed (and trusted he was going to a GM that would as much as us), we would be getting an equal opportunity back that would fit our future cap spending a bit better. Learning of the scenario after the fact and that it was already known prior to negotiating, from the beginning it was a win-win for Minnesota.
All I simply wanted was an apology from a friend, Eddie… He admitted his own guilt in the transaction as to when he could’ve backed out on multiple occasions and I came to grips that I leaned far too much on my trust and didn’t put in my due diligence during mediation.
Meanwhile, I had you threatening me from saying anything public trying to avoid this hypothetical "grave" that you said I'd dig… yet you post “what the hell” in the trade thread further twisting that knife.
You were accusing me of lacking empathy and I was days removed from losing our second child in a row from a miscarriage. I kept this news pretty close until you played that card. I don’t care if this puts me in a grave… I really couldn’t care less. How you treat people in both real life and here will come back.
What I care about are people being put in positions of leadership in this league or any league for this matter, that have characteristics that evoke compassion, understanding and caring for the unknowns. I do wish Minnesota the best and I know the Cord will do a phenomenal job and the entire roster will benefit from his positive approach in both the community and in the locker room.
bluesfan55 IIHF Federation Head
Too young for this shit
04-28-2025, 12:44 PMtrella Wrote: I think a problem we see across many leagues with HO is a failure to view anything through anyone else’s eyes except their own. If you see something differently than the way HO does, then you are wrong and you will be gaslit about it. There is no attempt to see things from the perspective of managers or the community at large, just whatever the small group at the top think. While yes, is it their job to make those decisions on what they believe, what makes it worse is when HO makes a decision others disagree with, they refuse to even acknowledge the feelings and perspectives of others, and then they just treat you like you’re crazy. Just had this happen to me and my team in the SSL and there is some overlap between board members here and there. Just something I noticed that i think HO can work on because having a ruling not go your way can already be frustrating/upsetting/disheartening, but then having HO completely disregard and invalidate your feelings and experiences makes it worse.
honestly couldn't have put it any better than this
04-28-2025, 12:48 PM(This post was last modified: 04-28-2025, 01:08 PM by Waters. Edited 1 time in total.)
04-28-2025, 12:46 PMWally Wrote: Why do you keep going on this @Waters
It’s been two weeks and you continue to run with the script that only benefits your narrative.
Maybe try internalizing your own actions as to why HO even had a reason to consider other options. God forbid someone mention you have done anything wrong… I mean, fuck… between baiting and shit posting relentlessly there couldn’t bet be a reason there??
Oh that’s right… You thought you needed to be the knight to protect Eddie a couple weeks ago. You thought protecting Eddie meant you could threaten to put me in a grave if I went public about any thing, referencing you being the only one with empathy in the scenario. Dude you couldn’t be more wrong in your assessment at the moment.
Each one of us deal with life circumstances, good and bad, on a daily basis. Did you ever think to ask before trying to use Eddie’s parents as part of your argument of his decisions? Did you know that Eddie regretted the decisions he made in negotiating that trade? You ever think why?
Eddie knew that I was both negotiating not just for a good friend, but with a good friend. So however people want to spin it, the reason he came to me was knowing he had my trust and trust in Corey. While looking back, yup it would have been nice to know what wasn’t disclosed. That’s on me and clearly learned a lesson that I can’t trust any competing GMs even if they are friends.
In mediation, I couldn’t ask for anything of it because you guys negotiated in a way that didn’t break any rules and that was by your choice... These were my words. Which is totally alright. However, think about it from my perspective if you care to understand at all… I had a friend that I had stood up for since day one when he got the GM job (Eddie) negotiating with me for a friend (Corey) that he knew I also enjoyed immensely. Corey was the one who brought me back to life in S54 and I owe much of the way I care about this community to him, unlike how I acted in the early S30s.
Who wouldn’t be pissed off though? We loved Saint as well, so we felt if we were giving up someone we enjoyed (and trusted he was going to a GM that would as much as us), we would be getting an equal opportunity back that would fit our future cap spending a bit better. Learning of the scenario after the fact and that it was already known prior to negotiating, from the beginning it was a win-win for Minnesota.
All I simply wanted was an apology from a friend, Eddie… He admitted his own guilt in the transaction as to when he could’ve backed out on multiple occasions and I came to grips that I leaned far too much on my trust and didn’t put in my due diligence during mediation.
Meanwhile, I had you threatening me from saying anything public trying to avoid this hypothetical "grave" that you said I'd dig… yet you post “what the hell” in the trade thread further twisting that knife.
You were accusing me of lacking empathy and I was days removed from losing our second child in a row from a miscarriage. I kept this news pretty close until you played that card. I don’t care if this puts me in a grave… I really couldn’t care less. How you treat people in both real life and here will come back.
What I care about are people being put in positions of leadership in this league or any league for this matter, that have characteristics that evoke compassion, understanding and caring for the unknowns. I do wish Minnesota the best and I know the Cord will do a phenomenal job and the entire roster will benefit from his positive approach in both the community and in the locker room.
editing out some shitty things I said before fully reading the post. That being said, I did not threaten you.
04-28-2025, 12:44 PMWaters Wrote: you came in accusing me of spinning a bs narrative man
literally our first interaction was you doing that
Yes.
That Jess somehow is in control of the whole of HO is an bs narrative. Saying you should stop doing that (due to the way it's belittling the rest of HO, I will not talk for Jess if she has any opinions regarding that) is not disrespecting you or saying your feelings doesn't matter.
04-28-2025, 12:34 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: This is entirely fair. I am sorry for any hurt this has caused Waters. I doubt he wants to hear an apology from me at this point, but yes, I am sorry that this has caused anyone hurt. I am sorry that sim sports ever causes anybody actual stress or hurt, myself included. That is never the intent with this kind of thing. You and I, Alaska, discussed at length recently how unfair it is that the standing co "always" gets hired. You expressed to me (respectfully and in a constructive manner) that it wasn't fair to do that, that other people outside the team should have the chance to apply for those positions. That's actually criticism that I thought was entirely valid, and I'm certainly not saying that was why we made this decision, but it was something I took to heart and reflected on as we've made a lot of hirings recently.
We do want to consider and respond to criticism. I have been doing that so, so much lately, whether it's been responding to people about the crasher/FA thing, this hiring, expansion rules, etc. When people are hostile and cruel with their criticisms, though, it makes it hard for us to focus on the actual feedback. We try to, but we are also only human, and when we are repeatedly not just critiqued for our decisions but for being "lazy" or "control freaks" or "untrustworthy" that is just not going to lead to a productive dialogue. Because we are real people too, you know?
Going back to our discussion, you also said that removing stability and an established rapport with a co-GM is not the answer, and that HO does not want people with no connection to a team to think they can get that job.
It’s hard for me to level that discussion with this event, especially given the established rapport that existed between Waters and his team, the lack of connection between Cord (who is very much the innocent bystander in this, sorry buddy) and the team, and the very clear feedback that was received from the actual players affected by this decision. I’ve been in the shoes of Chris applying internally to see an external hire come in (and bring an external co-GM with them), and the team was rightfully upset and proven correct when that individual fled after one season.
Fully understand that HO are people too, not trying to justify or argue that certain things that were said was correct or right. No one is saying Cord is unqualified or a bad option either because I’ve seen that put out there and I think that’s fully misunderstanding where the anger is coming from and why. Maybe in this case, it’s not about how HO feels, it’s about how Waters and the players affected feel.
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