01-04-2020, 03:59 PMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote:

01-04-2020, 02:14 PMnour Wrote: I think a lot of what you said here has merit and is really fair, genuinely the points you made are well thought out and expressed in a discussion-encouraging way. I’ll chime in just because I like the open nature this comment provides:

There were a few players who had the egregious scoring-passing differential that left some of them with 40 passing. Offseason saw 6 of these players have redistributions rejected because of it and those 6 players adjusting accordingly, as well as the regression updates to ensure the gap isn’t as severe on players who are regressing. As it stands there are still more shoot first players on Hamilton, but at this point when shooting has been proven to be the better stat, the only thing to fix it using sths is to willingly ask players to build players they dislike playing and put tpe into stats they dont care about, which is already a slog to do for stats you DO like with how TPE scales in older players. In addition to this, we didn’t slam the league like NOLA did, high scoring or not we have a playoff calibre team tpe-wise, it shouldnt be a surprise ir outrageous that we performed well.

I’ll agree that the attitude out of HAM could be better. I’ve personally apologized in past threads that the team as a whole could be more empathetic towards the site, and I don’t really enjoy the “get good” sentiment that the team has been putting out and I really dislike that a lot of the antagonizing of the group comes from the attitude we put out to the site like its us against the world, I’ll fully agree with you there thats a problem. I will clarify like others have in the past that this isn’t the second time we are taking advantage of the sim, when they first found this strat it produced good results but we legit NEVER saw anything sim breaking in the tests we put out, and I may be mistaken but the really broken results only came through in public tests where EVERYONE on Hamilton has 99 Scoring/40 Passing (not feasible), and the one team tested against had the reverse (40 Scoring/99 Passing). Again I might be misremembering there but if I’m not, I don’t think thats a fair, totally unbiased test, and this season’s results + our personal tests can speak to that.

Not much to say on the third paragraph other than you’re right, certainly people shouldn’t be expected to love it and the attitude out of Hamilton isn’t entirely a good one.

Lastly, yeah this is awfully small sample size and I really don’t like that now any time Hamilton wins a game people can default to saying “oh its the strat fuckin pricks”. We were a better team than Buffalo this season and our goalie has double the TPE, and we only outshot them by 6 shots. The scoring stat doesn’t make your players better at shooting it just makes them shoot MORE, so by this metric, the Buffalo series was a standard SHL playoff series, where goaltending decided the outcome. I don’t entirely see that as a fluke.

Thanks for the well thought out and level headed reply!

I would agree that the data that we have on the PA-SC exploit is kinda problematic and not nearly as unanimous as it has been made out to be. Maybe I missed a post on this somewhere but it seems like all we have is different tests from different people with different set-ups, but no one-stop post where the availale data has been collected for some thorough analysis, and calls for such a post have been mostly ignored or missed. I really don't like that both the criticism towards you guys and the argument that a sim-change absolutely needs to happen is based on possibly faulty, but at the very least inconsistent and incomplete data.

In my opinion, or at least according to the information that is publicly availably, we still don't know how big this problem actually is. We have you guys who originally worked out this strategy and made your tests with it, then after this became public different people ran different tests with different setups. We had tests where an entire teams was built like that and nobody else, tests where it was one player on a team or three, tests where only one season was simmed, tests where a players whole career was simulated and so on, and thats not even taking into accounts the different methods people might have used in regards to sliders or auto-lines. And some of these tests have come to vastly different results.

After the test where all of Hamilton was 40-99 and no one else was (or other teams were even built the opposite way), everyone thought that the sky was falling and that STHS was dead, but it only gradually came out how extreme and unrealistic some of the parameters of this test had been. On the other hand, there were other tests like the Phelps (I think it was him) career-simulation with 40-99 for only himself, where his numbers were still very good but not nearly as inflated and crazy as in the other tests. In fact I would say that those kinds of numbers would probably be possible for a non-exploit player today if he started at Max TPE instead of having to go through progression and regression.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle but my point is that we don't know how bad the exploit actually is because we can't judge the different circumstances of the various test and compare them to each other. Or if that knowledge exists somewhere then it is only collected behind closed doors and not available on the public forums, which I think would be a mistakes because this is some crucial information that would benefit a lot from as many people as possible taking a look at it, poking holes into it and coming up with new tests.

Again thanks for the well thought and discussion-encouraging comment.

I think you make a great point about further, more public testing with DEFINED starting points would be crucial to dispelling some of the animosity and questions surrounding this whole situation. With the busy time of year winding down I do hope thats something we can get sooner rather than later. Believe me, like I said I empathize with the site’s frustration and I do think the attitude coming out of Hamilton, from top to bottom, REALLY doesn’t help the situation and does make us come across in a way that encourages negative discourse to come our way. My only frustration in this last month has been the fact that the full picture hasn’t really been shown, and the entire team is catching flack, even the guys who’ve been civil and steered clear of being antagonistic, off reports that are made to make Hamilton seem like the worst group of dudes possible, instead of fairer, more realistic tests. This season + post season speaks for itself. We were a good team but we didn’t come close to dominating the league the way NOLA did, and the Buffalo series was close shots-wise but goaltending ended up being the difference maker.

The point is we just simply need more data, I think we all know scoring has a big advantage vs other stats in the sim, but we need real, public testing from unbiased parties (AKA not GMs or Management members) to really conclude the severity of this, because right now its all a lot of guess work and numbers pulled from test sims that are hardly to compare.