06-30-2020, 02:00 PMfrithjofr Wrote: I'm writing this quickly from work, but I wanted to say that I appreciate the apology, but I also want to say that personally I don't think it's good enough.
I was the one who fucked up in NOLA last year, an honest mistake, and through my apology thread and BOTH of the NOLA punishment threads, I was given massive, massive amounts of shit. Not just from the community at large, but also literally from Nour, who implicitly endorsed the abuse I was receiving by way of telling me to "shut up and take my lumps."
I've reached out to two members of HO about some of the targeted abuse I took in the aftermath of that event and despite it being months down the road have not heard a word about it from anyone.
It's clear to me that there are two different standards in this league. There are absolutely favorites. You can say whatever you want about what we did and how it differs from what Edmonton did, but as far as the sim is concerned the end results were the same, both teams played with a 4th line. The only difference was my team used 1 position in that line, EDM used 5.
To me it seems like having integrity and owning your mistakes is a bad thing in this league. I got shit on for what I did, and I just sat there and took it. Didn't raise a fuss. I didn't want to make shit worse for Joe and TDZ, who later retired anyway because of the stress the fallout from that event put on him. I still get shit to this day about that. Look at the thread where I got hired for DACH, and I've got my own players jokingly linking me the rule book. I'm not saying that's abusive or anything, but the affects of that stupid mistake still follow me.
Sorry this is pretty incoherent, just rambling at work, but I felt like I had to get it out.
06-30-2020, 02:00 PMfrithjofr Wrote: I'm writing this quickly from work, but I wanted to say that I appreciate the apology, but I also want to say that personally I don't think it's good enough.
I was the one who fucked up in NOLA last year, an honest mistake, and through my apology thread and BOTH of the NOLA punishment threads, I was given massive, massive amounts of shit. Not just from the community at large, but also literally from Nour, who implicitly endorsed the abuse I was receiving by way of telling me to "shut up and take my lumps."
I've reached out to two members of HO about some of the targeted abuse I took in the aftermath of that event and despite it being months down the road have not heard a word about it from anyone.
It's clear to me that there are two different standards in this league. There are absolutely favorites. You can say whatever you want about what we did and how it differs from what Edmonton did, but as far as the sim is concerned the end results were the same, both teams played with a 4th line. The only difference was my team used 1 position in that line, EDM used 5.
To me it seems like having integrity and owning your mistakes is a bad thing in this league. I got shit on for what I did, and I just sat there and took it. Didn't raise a fuss. I didn't want to make shit worse for Joe and TDZ, who later retired anyway because of the stress the fallout from that event put on him. I still get shit to this day about that. Look at the thread where I got hired for DACH, and I've got my own players jokingly linking me the rule book. I'm not saying that's abusive or anything, but the affects of that stupid mistake still follow me.
Sorry this is pretty incoherent, just rambling at work, but I felt like I had to get it out.
The difference is that NOLA did something very explicitly against the rules and EDM did something that was technically legal but that we did not believe was in the spirit of the rule and thus disallowed. It really does not get any more clear cut than that.
So if we do something that isn't mentioned in the rulebook to help us get an advantage we'll get a pass? Also where is the response about the targeted abuse he has directly messaged HO about with no response?
06-30-2020, 01:45 PMTommySalami Wrote: Any Edmonton hate can come down on me. I accidentally left the time in the 4th lines when I was playing around with lines and I'm the one who reached out about our backup game.
Are people from NOLA seriously still trying to re-write history and paint themselves as some sort of victim? You got off with merely a slep on the wrist for a clear cut rule-break and, I can't emphasize this enough, there were ZERO in-sim consequences or any form of punishment for you in the very playoffs where said rule-break occured. You can think about the EDM situation and how it was handled however you want (especially the backup-thing was defnitely mishandled, but SDCore already acknowledged that), but using this case to try and further build that bullshit narrative of how poor NOLA got mistreated for basically doing nothing? Come on now...
06-30-2020, 02:00 PMfrithjofr Wrote: I'm writing this quickly from work, but I wanted to say that I appreciate the apology, but I also want to say that personally I don't think it's good enough.
I was the one who fucked up in NOLA last year, an honest mistake, and through my apology thread and BOTH of the NOLA punishment threads, I was given massive, massive amounts of shit. Not just from the community at large, but also literally from Nour, who implicitly endorsed the abuse I was receiving by way of telling me to "shut up and take my lumps."
I've reached out to two members of HO about some of the targeted abuse I took in the aftermath of that event and despite it being months down the road have not heard a word about it from anyone.
It's clear to me that there are two different standards in this league. There are absolutely favorites. You can say whatever you want about what we did and how it differs from what Edmonton did, but as far as the sim is concerned the end results were the same, both teams played with a 4th line. The only difference was my team used 1 position in that line, EDM used 5.
To me it seems like having integrity and owning your mistakes is a bad thing in this league. I got shit on for what I did, and I just sat there and took it. Didn't raise a fuss. I didn't want to make shit worse for Joe and TDZ, who later retired anyway because of the stress the fallout from that event put on him. I still get shit to this day about that. Look at the thread where I got hired for DACH, and I've got my own players jokingly linking me the rule book. I'm not saying that's abusive or anything, but the affects of that stupid mistake still follow me.
Sorry this is pretty incoherent, just rambling at work, but I felt like I had to get it out.
This league has a cool kids club and they play by different rules than the rest.
First SHL goal on first SHL shot in first SHL game.
06-30-2020, 02:00 PMfrithjofr Wrote: I'm writing this quickly from work, but I wanted to say that I appreciate the apology, but I also want to say that personally I don't think it's good enough.
I was the one who fucked up in NOLA last year, an honest mistake, and through my apology thread and BOTH of the NOLA punishment threads, I was given massive, massive amounts of shit. Not just from the community at large, but also literally from Nour, who implicitly endorsed the abuse I was receiving by way of telling me to "shut up and take my lumps."
I've reached out to two members of HO about some of the targeted abuse I took in the aftermath of that event and despite it being months down the road have not heard a word about it from anyone.
It's clear to me that there are two different standards in this league. There are absolutely favorites. You can say whatever you want about what we did and how it differs from what Edmonton did, but as far as the sim is concerned the end results were the same, both teams played with a 4th line. The only difference was my team used 1 position in that line, EDM used 5.
To me it seems like having integrity and owning your mistakes is a bad thing in this league. I got shit on for what I did, and I just sat there and took it. Didn't raise a fuss. I didn't want to make shit worse for Joe and TDZ, who later retired anyway because of the stress the fallout from that event put on him. I still get shit to this day about that. Look at the thread where I got hired for DACH, and I've got my own players jokingly linking me the rule book. I'm not saying that's abusive or anything, but the affects of that stupid mistake still follow me.
Sorry this is pretty incoherent, just rambling at work, but I felt like I had to get it out.
Frith, I want to personally apologize to, I dropped the ball on this. I have had your pm in my inbox for a while now and to not have addressed this here or to you personally is a problem. I too am working a lot, as this is my companies busy season and most busy 2 weeks of work. This is no excuse, just a way to explain how I forgot.
You should not have been singled out or harassed on the site. Failure to address this as a whole is a failure in my part. I am sorry for the lack of response to you personally about these issues. Again my post today was to highlight some of the failures I've had as a Commissioner to the league as a whole. My hope is that you can begin to forgive me for these short comings.
Targeted abuse is something that is hard for me to punish in a lot of cases, because it has become somewhat common place, though I think we have done a better job of it as of recently. Many members have been on both sides of it, which escalates the issue. Voicing frustration with people and situations can be a good thing, but it can also disenfranchise people with the site or the community as a whole. Speaking personally, the problem I have is what is the line, right now we have set a clear line against able-ism, homophobic, and racist remarks, but at what point does telling someone to F' Off become an issue. At what point does posting remarks about past infractions become harassment. These are very careful lines we have to tow and if we haven't done a good job in the eyes of some, I apologize.
Please remember, how you act one day might effect how others act towards you later. Being an aggressor about a certain issue, will paint a light poorly on you later. This does not forgive or excuse anyone feeling belittle or harassed. How to police this type of act is hard for me personally, as I probably have a different threshold for this. Especially being in such a high visibility job, that has aggressive words towards a lot.
This being said @frithjofr again I want to personally apologize to you for dropping the ball. I will be looking into this today, please let me know if any of this continues from one specific user or a group and I will address it in kind.
06-30-2020, 02:10 PMBaelor Swift Wrote: The difference is that NOLA did something very explicitly against the rules and EDM did something that was technically legal but that we did not believe was in the spirit of the rule and thus disallowed. It really does not get any more clear cut than that.
So if we do something that isn't mentioned in the rulebook to help us get an advantage we'll get a pass? Also where is the response about the targeted abuse he has directly messaged HO about with no response?
I can't give a definitive answer because it is situational but not everything strategy-related that will give advantages is illegal - and hardly so. Especially as we are just in our second season with FHM, it's not always easy to create a catch-all rule about what is and is not okay to do. But if you will recall, Hamilton finding an exploit in STHS actually did not get punished - rather rule amendments were made to nip it in the bud along with a much-needed sim engine change.
However, if you do break an existing rule in submitted lines/strategies, you will be punished for it.
As for the abuse, I can't really say. I don't have any messages about it from him and I do not know who he raised the issues with so I really can't comment on it but he is more than welcome to bring his concerns to me.
08-24-2018, 01:08 PMWannabeFinn Wrote: Ah yes, the veteran meme player. A surefire bet for maybe 400 TPE
06-30-2020, 02:52 PM(This post was last modified: 06-30-2020, 02:56 PM by teztify.)
I haven't been back to full activity for very long yet, but I'd like to add to the voices showing support for Corey. I understand some people in the league have issues - to varying degrees of legitimacy, some very and some less - with some of the consistency in rulings. I'd point you back to the original post of the thread which was an ownership of that, and an acknowledgement that we can keep striving to be better.
Consistency in rulings goes a long way in creating a sense of fairness. It's obviously incredibly important. However, we also operate in a league founded by young adults, run for over half a decade by literal children, running on a rulebook written by the same people, none of whom created the actual engines through which we sim the league. There are blindspots in the rulebook, each situation is unique, there's little twists in every set of facts that make it very difficult, sometimes, to say issue A equals issue B and therefore gets the same treatment. We play in a league that is adjusting with the times as far as what is acceptable to say to one another, and walk a fine line between policing speech like a social media platform or enforcing league rules like a hockey league, or trying to find some balance of both. As an aside, I've lately thought a lot about that - about what role the NHL plays in the disgusting comments a guy like Brendan Leipsic makes vs. the role his team plays in addressing it, and how that should or should not be mirrored here from a league vs. community point of view. It's a discussion worth having, but I digress.
Taking those things on, as people with other real jobs, and families, or school, and doing it for free (well, SHL money counts I guess), isn't easy. And while consistency is valued, you have to understand that the Head Office also reads all of the comments so many people post after each ruling, and where there is some small discretion on a punishment is dealt, on whether a punishment is dealt, or on how we categorize an issue, those comments and feedback from the league can have an effect. This is part of how the league evolves over time.
Having been a Commissioner in the past who went completely inactive after stepping down, I know that it's a struggle to make all people happy all the time. It's not as easy as you think to make consistent, by the book rulings every time when this is a league and community where two situations are seldom exactly alike, where honest mistakes by one party can look like a malicious infraction by another, and so on. It's hard especially when you gave up the fun part of this site - being a member, creating a player, making friends - to become the behaviour police when what you wanted to do was innovate and grow the league. There's no great mystery why an entire line of Commissioners have gone inactive. Where's Spangle? Where's Wadey? Where's Park?
The last thing I wanted to say in this incoherent show of support is that Core has been, in the time I've been around to witness him, an excellent Commissioner. Not every ruling is perfect. Not every HO discussion goes perfectly. They never have. Anyone who thinks they could step into Core's job and change that on day one is kidding themselves. Surely if that were possible, in 10 years of this site existing someone would've gotten everything consistently right. They haven't, because we're still growing, things are still changing, and ultimately this is still a hobby that each of us can only reasonably be asked to pour so much into. But for those who have issues with consistency and favoritism, you're right, these are things that have plagued the SHL forever. I was guilty of it in my initial run in HO, as was every Commish before and after me. But the league is in a much better spot in that regard than we used to be, and that forward progress is all we can really expect.
Something happened on the day he died. Spirit rose a metre and stepped aside.
Somebody else took his place, and bravely cried. I’m a blackstar, I’m a blackstar.
a bottomless curse, a bottomless sea, source of all greatness, all things that be.
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