04-04-2022, 03:56 PMspooked Wrote:

04-04-2022, 02:46 PMACapitalChicago Wrote: I strongly disagree. The J very much still is a development league, as we have our set goals of development and retainment. Just because we may not develop directly into the SHL does not mean these players are no longer developing at all, and instead speaks to the overall and frequently aforementioned issue that players outright don't want to leave the J. I fail to see how our autonomy and ability to be self-sufficient instead of relying on a different League's head office is a fault, when I instead find our current professional courtesies and conversations helpful and beneficial to all involved. Why should SMJHL HO not have oversight of the SMJHL? Not once, for as far as I've been in SMJHL HO, "not wanted to compromise our own competitiveness to accommodate development style changes" to paraphrase your own words, and I'd be interested in hearing how we've done so in the past. The last update scale changes were not made with the SMJHL's parity or health in mind beyond hoping to result in more callups, which already strongarms our ability to handle competitive balance.

I know you probably didn't mean it this way, but this feels like a slap in the face to call us inflexible when we have done nothing but rewrite the rulebook and restructure our interior departments multiple times over multiple seasons so as to better accommodate the needs of the J.

Yeah, I didn't mean it that way. The "not being a development league anymore" was along the lines of "The J (and it's HO/Staff) is doing so well at making their product good it is actually compromising the SHL itself". It isn't much of a developmental league because there is no incentive to actual move on from it for some/most people. The GM jobs are more approachable, the player aspect is easier/more fun (less grind), etc.

The product the J can put out is easier to make superior because of how quick & approachable it can be, it pulls a lot of weight in helping the league be more engaging more quickly. Now you have some issues to face too, but the inherent advantage of only needing a couple months to be "good", instead of a year or more, makes it very difficult for the SHL to actually compete quickly/incentivize callups. The spread in TPE in the SHL also makes it much harder... These are not really problems that can be solved, just the nature of the J being outright advantaged in those areas. There needs to be more incentive to be called up, but I also don't think the SHL alone can make those changes since early-career SHL players are almost impossible to improve beyond what has already been done barring just kneecapping high tpe players outright or something along those lines.

I think it would be hard to name specific items, but the general attitude I remember was challenging to get anything between SHL to SMJHL HO done if it had any negatives to it for the J. The draft being so delayed is the obvious one cause it came up multiple times, but it is possible that would work as an example. In my opinion there isn't really a need to have the SMJHL Draft so far back, I think it would actually be better from a league perspective to draft the rookies FIRST, and then do the SHL draft... but the SMJHL pushed really hard to make sure the J GMs know the send downs before they draft for competition reasons I assume. Which is funny to me cause a GM could still change their roster after that date if they wanted to, it's not frozen I don't think anywhere in the rules last I looked.

The update scale being done that way was probably within the realm of what I am speaking to as being desirable for the site long term. Things that impact the SHL AND SMJHL should be decided by SHL HO and the Commish basically because it involves the main league, but with input from the SMJHL HO to avoid easily avoidable issues. Honestly speaking, I think the league would be a lot better if the two HO's were basically merged and managed the league from the top down without the division.

I will concede that yes, the J is getting to a point where we're having this legitimate discussion that some people would rather be in the J than the SHL. In that regard, sure you can have a valid argument that the J is less about direct development instead of passive support resulting in more activity construed as development and that would be a fair point. However there is the existence of the inherent issue of there being only so much we can do to promote moving up to the SHL when people view it so undesirably, for whatever reasons they have. Maybe they don't want to get crushed by higher TPE players, maybe they don't want to leave a group they love, maybe they want a chance to flex their muscles, maybe they think there's more parity in the J, whatever it may be these are valid concerns. However this is also circling back to where some of the conversation started, and is bordering on redundancy. You do have a good point about the impossibility of balancing newer users against established ones in regard to TPE disparities, as we can't have our cake of letting good players be good and eat it too in making sure they're not too much better than those without that TPE.

The issue with the attitude was that SMJHL HO felt a sincere lack of respect or understanding in regards to how our systems operate or how decisions made would affect us. Numerous times decisions were made that appeared to be done so without a care as to how they would change things in the J, such as the tendies change, the update scale change, drafted-but-not-signed players change that was almost completely overruled unknowingly the season after we established it, and many others. On the specific topic of the drafts, if you really want to consider J GMs not wanting to draft prior to SHL GMs as based in competition, feel free, but that feels disingenuous at the least. J GMs don't want to draft after the SHL GMs because of competition reasons, they do it so as to have as best a wholistic approach to their team as possible to ensure the best possible experience for their team. Having a team only comprised of forwards for example compromises that, and risks our overarching goal of retainment. Yes, GMs can still change their roster, but that's besides the point and doesn't address the main focus here.

Yes the intent behind the update scale changes were admirable, but that doesn't change that the impact and breadth of said changes were not fully examined in multiple lenses. I understand the perception that there's no interaction between SMJHL HO & SHL HO, but things have since changed. Without throwing people under the bus, I would point primarily to a breakdown in communications between the primary point people that were supposed to facilitate cooperation between the HOs that caused that original perception. However, since then, both myself and Finn have been more active in each other's HO to provide context and insight when necessary. In addition, we've also created an All HO joint server for topics that affect both leagues so as to ease communication between us. I understand the perception may not have been favorable, but that is far from the reality currently. Honestly speaking as well, I think merging the groups is a terrible idea that would result in a loss of specialization and needless bloat that'll result in far more harm than good.