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PT Affiliation

08-21-2018, 10:52 AM.bojo Wrote: Nobody reads PTs. They don't bring value. That's a completely different problem, but as it is, they're just basically units of work. Doesn't matter where they come from.

We could try to "entice" people to do PT's in SHL. a mil for doing all in a season? 250k per pt? you get the idea.

In Calgary, our PT'S were always shared, linked or brought up. I would disagree.

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08-21-2018, 11:01 AMNUCK Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:41 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:30 AMEvok Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:23 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:19 AMBeaver Wrote: Claim stuff for free? How do you figure that?

SHL has the easiest PTs of the three leagues involved here, if someone is linking a PT from another league they worked harder for that TPE than if they just did it here.

It was made pretty clear by multiple people that one of the goals is to bring in people who are currently active in the NSFL/PBE, but not here. No whether you believe that would work or not is actually point for debate, but there is a very clear intention here to bring in people who claim stuff from NSFL/PBE for SHL purposes.

You understand that the whole argumentation was about 'brining people from NSFL/PBE here' and that's the reason the argumentation here is around that? This affiliation pretty much works three ways. You can be in any league and use any PT of any league you want to use them in the others. This is actually a reason we could see more people coming here doing the PTs as you dont have to write as much as on the other leagues.

Yes, I understand that and I have adressed in multiple of my dreaded wall of texts why I don't think that won't actually be the case.

08-21-2018, 10:32 AMBeaver Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:23 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: It was made pretty clear by multiple people that one of the goals is to bring in people who are currently active in the NSFL/PBE, but not here. No whether you believe that would work or not is actually point for debate, but there is a very clear intention here to bring in people who claim stuff from NSFL/PBE for SHL purposes.
Yes. I'm not seeing how you figure that's "claim[ing] stuff for free." If they're claiming it that means they wrote 200 words about their football player, 200 words about their baseball player, or 150 words about their hockey player. They're still doing the PT.

It's quite simple for me, if no work was done on the SHL and no activity was created here, then it's claiming stuff for free. Which work was or was not done elsehwere has no implications here as far as I'm concerned. If you put in work in the NSFL, reap the rewards there and build a good player and if you find some extra time, you can then start participating in the SHL as well if that's what you wanna do.

08-21-2018, 10:50 AMiamslm22 Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:42 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:35 AMiamslm22 Wrote: I think the old school elitism of SHL is out in full force as well. A vocal minority attacking this idea, while the idea in PBE and NSFL has been literally universally celebrated. I don't understand how this negatively impacts the SHL.

Classy.


You really don't see how you, NUCK and others are talking down on us? It is literally true that the idea has had only positive comments in NSFL and PBE. It has been met by negative comments from people who SHL as the "premier sim league" and want to look down on other leagues. I don't see how saying old school elitism is being tactless or classless as your post implies. I have not resorted to personal attacks. I'm just stating facts.

I created the Wraiths as the original GM, I have joined almost every league but basketball. Most I was the top tpe player when they folded. I have seen the difference in the league and if this was VHL calling for help, we would have laughed them away. This idea sounds hurtful to our league, the league that NSFL and baseball are modeled after. Allowing other leagues issues to become an SHL problem as a result of shared effort reward, just sounds dangerous to what we have now. A excellent sim league with established roots built on its own and it's members, effort and Merritt.

NSFL and PBE are flourishing at the moment. This is something either league "needs" to survive. This is something that can help grow all three leagues. I am aware you are the founding GM of the Wraiths, but the league has changed a lot since you've been there. We don't need the SHL, and the SHL doesn't need us. But wouldn't you rather a league with a bigger base and more actives? That's what this opportunity is giving all of us.
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I created the Wraiths as the original GM, I have joined almost every league but basketball. Most I was the top tpe player when they folded. @NUCK

When who folded???
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08-21-2018, 11:04 AMNUCK Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:52 AM.bojo Wrote: Nobody reads PTs. They don't bring value. That's a completely different problem, but as it is, they're just basically units of work. Doesn't matter where they come from.

We could try to "entice" people to do PT's in SHL. a mil for doing all in a season? 250k per pt? you get the idea.

In Calgary, our PT'S were always shared, linked or brought up. I would disagree.

We would include one another, make jokes. How do you think you know about @JPL 's yellow jock strap? It all started with my pt in s22.

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08-21-2018, 10:52 AM.bojo Wrote: Nobody reads PTs.

@Nobody

You do?

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08-21-2018, 11:03 AMiamslm22 Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:55 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:50 AMiamslm22 Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:42 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:35 AMiamslm22 Wrote: I think the old school elitism of SHL is out in full force as well. A vocal minority attacking this idea, while the idea in PBE and NSFL has been literally universally celebrated. I don't understand how this negatively impacts the SHL.

Classy.


You really don't see how you, NUCK and others are talking down on us? It is literally true that the idea has had only positive comments in NSFL and PBE. It has been met by negative comments from people who SHL as the "premier sim league" and want to look down on other leagues. I don't see how saying old school elitism is being tactless or classless as your post implies. I have not resorted to personal attacks. I'm just stating facts.

Just grouping people together and calling them elitist instead of replying to their actual arguments is not a personal attack? Oh come on now. I have not said a bad word about the NSFL/PBE or their members at all throughout this thread. I think we had a good civil discussion going on last night over the first few pages, until some people came in here (from both sides) today and started namecalling.

I have replied to several arguments - including yours last night. This discussion about how it's going to ruin the league is asinine. You assertion that's its going to be 250 TPE over the course of a career is also just wrong. That implies a person who is going to be here for 17 Seasons is going earn max equipment and fight regression for several seasons and is never going to do a PT on this site? That person is going to be hyper active on here anyway, it just eases their burden. Additionally, I would argue that the league is significantly better off having someone like that.

The straw man / slippery slope arguments that you and rutuu are arguing for aren't going to happen. I still haven't seen one downside presented from either side. It appears that the conservative SHLers would rather other sim leagues fail than care about making SHL worse through slightly less PTs.

Your kinda passive aggressive, eh?

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08-21-2018, 10:41 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: It's quite simple for me, if no work was done on the SHL and no activity was created here, then it's claiming stuff for free. Which work was or was not done elsehwere has no implications here as far as I'm concerned. If you put in work in the NSFL, reap the rewards there and build a good player and if you find some extra time, you can then start participating in the SHL as well if that's what you wanna do.

Well that's an interesting and insular way of looking at it.

Personally I don't consider PTs valuable additions to the league and don't see how making people do them here generates activity here. I also don't see how letting people who are primarily football or baseball fans into the league as semi-actives (which is the stated goal, we'll see how well it works in reality) is so objectionable. I'm 100% behind the SHL not being an "everyone is a superstar" league but for that to work don't we need a portion of the userbase to be moderate earners and depth players? That means bringing in people who don't have the time and/or inclination to be full-bore dedicated to the league. I really don't understand this purity test we insist on.

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08-21-2018, 10:46 AMWhite Cornerback Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:42 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:35 AMiamslm22 Wrote: I think the old school elitism of SHL is out in full force as well. A vocal minority attacking this idea, while the idea in PBE and NSFL has been literally universally celebrated. I don't understand how this negatively impacts the SHL.

Classy.

Sarcastic.

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08-21-2018, 11:03 AMiamslm22 Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:55 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:50 AMiamslm22 Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:42 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:35 AMiamslm22 Wrote: I think the old school elitism of SHL is out in full force as well. A vocal minority attacking this idea, while the idea in PBE and NSFL has been literally universally celebrated. I don't understand how this negatively impacts the SHL.

Classy.


You really don't see how you, NUCK and others are talking down on us? It is literally true that the idea has had only positive comments in NSFL and PBE. It has been met by negative comments from people who SHL as the "premier sim league" and want to look down on other leagues. I don't see how saying old school elitism is being tactless or classless as your post implies. I have not resorted to personal attacks. I'm just stating facts.

Just grouping people together and calling them elitist instead of replying to their actual arguments is not a personal attack? Oh come on now. I have not said a bad word about the NSFL/PBE or their members at all throughout this thread. I think we had a good civil discussion going on last night over the first few pages, until some people came in here (from both sides) today and started namecalling.

I have replied to several arguments - including yours last night. This discussion about how it's going to ruin the league is asinine. You assertion that's its going to be 250 TPE over the course of a career is also just wrong. That implies a person who is going to be here for 17 Seasons is going earn max equipment and fight regression for several seasons and is never going to do a PT on this site? That person is going to be hyper active on here anyway, it just eases their burden. Additionally, I would argue that the league is significantly better off having someone like that.

The straw man / slippery slope arguments that you and rutuu are arguing for aren't going to happen. I still haven't seen one downside presented from either side. It appears that the conservative SHLers would rather other sim leagues fail than care about making SHL worse through slightly less PTs.

14*18 = 252 TPE. That's an average career of 14 seasons that just goes into the first, light years of regression. No equipment needed, no crazy hyperactivity to fight off brutal regression for years. You can fight that number all you want but that won't change that fact that over the course of a decently long career, people will get 200-300 TPE without doing anything for that here on the SHL.

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08-21-2018, 11:05 AMWhite Cornerback Wrote: I created the Wraiths as the original GM, I have joined almost every league but basketball. Most I was the top tpe player when they folded. @NUCK

When who folded???

Previous leagues we had tried football, soccer, baseball and UFC.

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I don't mind this

The best step though would be getting rid of PT's entirely as they are a stain on the existence of the world and deserve to die for being utterly asinine and inorganic

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Why are they shorter here? Those other leagues are casual ones for babies and idiots?

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(This post was last modified: 08-21-2018, 11:14 AM by ToeDragon84.)

Shit I agree with RED even though I could get out of doing an awful pbe magazine cover task every week.

Basically is the same task every week

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(This post was last modified: 08-21-2018, 11:14 AM by caltroit_red_flames.)

08-21-2018, 11:10 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote:
08-21-2018, 11:03 AMiamslm22 Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:55 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:50 AMiamslm22 Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:42 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: Classy.


You really don't see how you, NUCK and others are talking down on us? It is literally true that the idea has had only positive comments in NSFL and PBE. It has been met by negative comments from people who SHL as the "premier sim league" and want to look down on other leagues. I don't see how saying old school elitism is being tactless or classless as your post implies. I have not resorted to personal attacks. I'm just stating facts.

Just grouping people together and calling them elitist instead of replying to their actual arguments is not a personal attack? Oh come on now. I have not said a bad word about the NSFL/PBE or their members at all throughout this thread. I think we had a good civil discussion going on last night over the first few pages, until some people came in here (from both sides) today and started namecalling.

I have replied to several arguments - including yours last night. This discussion about how it's going to ruin the league is asinine. You assertion that's its going to be 250 TPE over the course of a career is also just wrong. That implies a person who is going to be here for 17 Seasons is going earn max equipment and fight regression for several seasons and is never going to do a PT on this site? That person is going to be hyper active on here anyway, it just eases their burden. Additionally, I would argue that the league is significantly better off having someone like that.

The straw man / slippery slope arguments that you and rutuu are arguing for aren't going to happen. I still haven't seen one downside presented from either side. It appears that the conservative SHLers would rather other sim leagues fail than care about making SHL worse through slightly less PTs.

14*18 = 252 TPE. That's an average career of 14 seasons that just goes into the first, light years of regression. No equipment needed, no crazy hyperactivity to fight off brutal regression for years. You can fight that number all you want but that won't change that fact that over the course of a decently long career, people will get 200-300 TPE without doing anything for that here on the SHL.

I don't care to get in the middle of this, but I think it's worth noting that it's capped TPE so it isn't really getting a leg up on anyone.

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08-21-2018, 11:09 AMNUCK Wrote:
08-21-2018, 11:03 AMiamslm22 Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:55 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:50 AMiamslm22 Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:42 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: Classy.


You really don't see how you, NUCK and others are talking down on us? It is literally true that the idea has had only positive comments in NSFL and PBE. It has been met by negative comments from people who SHL as the "premier sim league" and want to look down on other leagues. I don't see how saying old school elitism is being tactless or classless as your post implies. I have not resorted to personal attacks. I'm just stating facts.

Just grouping people together and calling them elitist instead of replying to their actual arguments is not a personal attack? Oh come on now. I have not said a bad word about the NSFL/PBE or their members at all throughout this thread. I think we had a good civil discussion going on last night over the first few pages, until some people came in here (from both sides) today and started namecalling.

I have replied to several arguments - including yours last night. This discussion about how it's going to ruin the league is asinine. You assertion that's its going to be 250 TPE over the course of a career is also just wrong. That implies a person who is going to be here for 17 Seasons is going earn max equipment and fight regression for several seasons and is never going to do a PT on this site? That person is going to be hyper active on here anyway, it just eases their burden. Additionally, I would argue that the league is significantly better off having someone like that.

The straw man / slippery slope arguments that you and rutuu are arguing for aren't going to happen. I still haven't seen one downside presented from either side. It appears that the conservative SHLers would rather other sim leagues fail than care about making SHL worse through slightly less PTs.

Your kinda passive aggressive, eh?

Not really. Passive aggressive would be subtly referencing you. I'm being aggressive aggressive. You are being elitist, but luckily you are in the minority. You couldn't even bother to read the original post, and instead argued for something that would give even more of a benefit. RED is arguing his side, and attempting to have an intelligent discussion. You are doing neither.
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