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***WannabeFinn*** · 08-21-2018, 11:14 AM

where would we be without Gatekeeper RED

Nobody · 08-21-2018, 11:14 AM

08-21-2018, 11:06 AMtimeconsumer Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:52 AM.bojo Wrote: Nobody reads PTs.

@Nobody

You do?

Yeah I do. It's always fun to see what other people write.

~~formx~~ · 08-21-2018, 11:20 AM

08-21-2018, 07:54 AMztevans Wrote:
08-21-2018, 06:24 AMSamee Wrote: i dont see a reason for this its like every player over 1000 tpe performs kinda the same. like tf Marius has like i think 1k and atmey has 1.5 or something, they perform basically the same.

I initially read Marius as Manius and thought Samee was high af, AMA

October 17 can't come fast enough

ErM · 08-21-2018, 11:26 AM

Wait, people can use easy 150 word wastes of time from the SHL to substitute for 200 word wastes of time in other leagues? This is an outrage.

**RomanesEuntDomus** · 08-21-2018, 11:27 AM

08-21-2018, 11:09 AMBeaver Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:41 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: It's quite simple for me, if no work was done on the SHL and no activity was created here, then it's claiming stuff for free. Which work was or was not done elsehwere has no implications here as far as I'm concerned. If you put in work in the NSFL, reap the rewards there and build a good player and if you find some extra time, you can then start participating in the SHL as well if that's what you wanna do.

Well that's an interesting and insular way of looking at it.

Personally I don't consider PTs valuable additions to the league and don't see how making people do them here generates activity here. I also don't see how letting people who are primarily football or baseball fans into the league as semi-actives (which is the stated goal, we'll see how well it works in reality) is so objectionable. I'm 100% behind the SHL not being an "everyone is a superstar" league but for that to work don't we need a portion of the userbase to be moderate earners and depth players? That means bringing in people who don't have the time and/or inclination to be full-bore dedicated to the league. I really don't understand this purity test we insist on.

I wouldn't even argue with your general point that PTs aren't particularly valuable, you are probably right about that. Some people in here have mentioned that they and their teams read and enjoy them and they can be particularly fun for newer members but I'd agree with you that in the long term, PTs don't add much. But the solution to that would be to replace them with something better, not to keep a boring system but then give people massive amounts of TPE for free.

You say that you don't want this to be an everyone is a superstar league either but this is exactly the route this is taking us on. As mentioned earlier, there are basically two things that separate top-earners from the middle of the pack. And by middle of the pack I don't mean semi-actives, but people who are fully active but just don't have the motivation to write much. These two things are PTs and Equipment. Combined, over the course of a career that goes slightly into regression, they provide about 600 TPE, or the difference between a good 1200 TPE player and a 1800 TPE franchise guy. That's a big amount and we are taking almost half of it and make it free for some people, but not all. All other TPE opportunities aside from PTs and media-financed equipment barely take any work at all. Individual training paid by contract money, Activity Checks, Training Camp, Copy&Paste PTs at the start of a season, Twitter... All these things require no writing or graphic effort whatsoever and easily get you over 1000 TPE even as someone who doesn't have the time/motivation to write PTs. It's very viable for everyone to go that route and you don't need a 250 TPE handout on top of that.

I guess this is a somewhat different discussion but I think all those complaints that you see in many places about the league pushing away semi-actives or requiring too much work are way overblown. It's just not true, you can be a semi-active here and never write a PT or article in your life and still break 1000 TPE and be a valuable piece to a team. Most TPE-activities in this league don't require any work whatsoever aside from copy & pasting, the only things that require actual work and can be tiresome are PTs and stuff like articles or jobs that you do to be able to buy equipment. And those are the things we use to determine who the really engaged people are, whose dedication is rewarded by giving them the best shot to survive STHS randomness and have a superstar career.

NUCK · 08-21-2018, 11:28 AM

08-21-2018, 11:14 AMiamslm22 Wrote:
08-21-2018, 11:09 AMNUCK Wrote:
08-21-2018, 11:03 AMiamslm22 Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:55 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:50 AMiamslm22 Wrote: You really don't see how you, NUCK and others are talking down on us? It is literally true that the idea has had only positive comments in NSFL and PBE. It has been met by negative comments from people who SHL as the "premier sim league" and want to look down on other leagues. I don't see how saying old school elitism is being tactless or classless as your post implies. I have not resorted to personal attacks. I'm just stating facts.

Just grouping people together and calling them elitist instead of replying to their actual arguments is not a personal attack? Oh come on now. I have not said a bad word about the NSFL/PBE or their members at all throughout this thread. I think we had a good civil discussion going on last night over the first few pages, until some people came in here (from both sides) today and started namecalling.

I have replied to several arguments - including yours last night. This discussion about how it's going to ruin the league is asinine. You assertion that's its going to be 250 TPE over the course of a career is also just wrong. That implies a person who is going to be here for 17 Seasons is going earn max equipment and fight regression for several seasons and is never going to do a PT on this site? That person is going to be hyper active on here anyway, it just eases their burden. Additionally, I would argue that the league is significantly better off having someone like that.

The straw man / slippery slope arguments that you and rutuu are arguing for aren't going to happen. I still haven't seen one downside presented from either side. It appears that the conservative SHLers would rather other sim leagues fail than care about making SHL worse through slightly less PTs.

Your kinda passive aggressive, eh?

Not really. Passive aggressive would be subtly referencing you. I'm being aggressive aggressive. You are being elitist, but luckily you are in the minority. You couldn't even bother to read the original post, and instead argued for something that would give even more of a benefit. RED is arguing his side, and attempting to have an intelligent discussion. You are doing neither.

If you are referring to my thoughts that our PT's don't count for the other sites. That was confusion while reading through this and why it contradicted the OP.

Yes I did read it before commenting, thank you again for your assumptions.

**RomanesEuntDomus** · 08-21-2018, 11:31 AM

08-21-2018, 11:14 AMWannabeFinn Wrote: where would we be without Gatekeeper RED

Ah yes, the good old Buffalo circlejerk is here after one of their own got into an argument, turning it's attention elsewhere after getting bored from just starting fights with the Czechs and the North Stars. What a coincidence that this happens just now after I told you guys that I don't want to go back to Buffalo in the draft...

DeletedAtUserRequest · 08-21-2018, 11:32 AM

*responding to those that said it's wrong to believe that the SHL is the best league*

why would it be wrong to feel like the SHL is the best league? I see nothing wrong about that type of pride in a place where you put allot of time and effort in. I would suspect that for a portion of members here that type of pride would motivate them to take a policy making jobs to help move the site forward or to spend a portion of there time to make sure that the site migration was a success or to keep themselves away from other leagues and focus there best work here to give the SHL that high level activity and distinctivness. We shouldnt put down those members that consider the SHL the best SIM in the land, those members will be on the front line when we need something done that takes more then the casual member.

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timeconsumer · 08-21-2018, 11:32 AM

For what it's worth the PT sharing system implemented is actually more likely to result in people like me (the kind this system is geared towards) in me writing all my PTs here instead of NSFL or PBE. Reason being because I can submit SHL PTs as welfare in EFL but I can't do that with NSFL or PBE. Although I may only be a sample size of one, this system is likely to get more SHL PTs from me even though I'm casual here and a max earner in NSFL and PBE. Amazing how that works sometimes.

karey · 08-21-2018, 11:32 AM

I care very little about what other members do or don't do in regards to TPE, I just puty head down and work. It's a nicer place when there's a lot going on here, and if this spikes activity I'm happy

Good job HO this could be pretty exciting

caltroit_red_flames · 08-21-2018, 11:33 AM

I think it's also worth noting how excited PBE guys are about this

http://probaseballexperience.jcink.net/i...entry37236

**RomanesEuntDomus** · 08-21-2018, 11:35 AM

08-21-2018, 11:33 AMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote: I think it's also worth noting how excited PBE guys are about this

http://probaseballexperience.jcink.net/i...entry37236

A handful of one-liners hardly qualifies as overwhelming excitement in my books, especially if half of these posters are already on the SHL and therefore wouldn't add any new activity, but are just happy about an opportunity to get the same amount of TPE for less work from now on.

Clint Eastwood · 08-21-2018, 11:36 AM

08-21-2018, 11:32 AMMike Izzy Wrote: *responding to those that said it's wrong to believe that the SHL is the best league*

why would it be wrong to feel like the SHL is the best league? I see nothing wrong about that type of pride in a place where you put allot of time and effort in. I would suspect that for a portion of members here that type of pride would motivate them to take a policy making jobs to help move the site forward or to spend a portion of there time to make sure that the site migration was a success or to keep themselves away from other leagues and focus there best work here to give the SHL that high level activity and distinctivness. We shouldnt put down those members that consider the SHL the best SIM in the land, those members will be on the front line when we need something done that takes more then the casual member.

We mean that in as people who think the SHL is too good to cooperate with other sim leagues.

**RomanesEuntDomus** · 08-21-2018, 11:36 AM

But yeah I realize I'm getting kinda snarky and probably not very productive in my remarks so I better leave it at that, have a good day everyone. It was good to have this discussion and exchange of opinions, at least for a while!

Radsin · 08-21-2018, 11:37 AM

I can see why some people don't like it. For me, i'd like to be involved with other sports for sim leagues, this seems like one of the few ways to accomplish that. I was gonna join NSFL months ago but, they didn't have the activity to make it "worth while". Now they are getting there, just keeps me more involved with sim leagues in general. That's all good in my book. Also PTs are more busy work than anything, ill tell you as a new user, doing a PT over in NSFL rather than here does not mean I would be paying less attention here, If anything it frees me up to just straight up browse both sites more. Though its possible this wont be the case for everyone or even the majority.

I also like how weekend PTs aren't involved. I see the SHL has "weekend fun time" and I think thats a great way to give out some bonus TPE but also keep people on the ball with the goings on in the league. Just my two cents, not sure if it will increase activity here or not, but I know I very much like it for me.

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