08-21-2018, 10:35 AMiamslm22 Wrote: I think the old school elitism of SHL is out in full force as well. A vocal minority attacking this idea, while the idea in PBE and NSFL has been literally universally celebrated. I don't understand how this negatively impacts the SHL.
08-21-2018, 10:15 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: A 15 career season isn't a fringe thing imho, I'd say something in the 12-15 season range is basically the norm for people who don't go inactive at some point, and many actually go longer. TDZ used an estimate of 18 TPE per season, over a 15 season career that would be 270 TPE, two seasons more and we are already in 300+ territory. Those are massive amounts of TPE that are being handed out.
And regarding your second point, the whole argument for this change, as laid out in the OP, is to bring in people who aren't interested in doing PTs here on the SHL (and to bring people to other leagues who don't want to do PTs there). So yes, those hypothetical people you mentioned are exactly the ones we are apparently trying to here with this change. And I'd agree with you, those sound like a work of fiction more than anything else. I don't think we will be able to bring in those people. All that will happen is that we bring in some people who don't have a lot of interest to begin with, and that the people who are already here but who are also in those other leagues will effectively spend less of their sim league time here on the SHL. That doesn't sound like a win-win to me.
It's also a zero TPE advantage over someone else that's actually doing their PTs. There is no advantage. There's still a PT being done, it's just on a different site. There's no "advantage" here. There's no magical shortcut being taken. You're mad that someone can participate in multiple leagues easier when you've already expressed that you literally don't give a shit about the other leagues, and the only thing that seems to be the difference is that the PT, a completely non-interactive piece of content that nobody else reads but the poster and the marker, has been made on a different site about a different topic. The rest of your post is speculation, pulled freshly from your arse, and does not deserve to be addressed. The points you are trying to express here make so little sense that I can't tell if you're trolling or not, and until you adequately explain exactly why it's so important that these dead, non-interactive pieces of content must be purely from this site and not some other one, I'm going to assume you are.
Lol, someone seems mad. Guess you just can't take someone disagreeing with you while you pull incorrect numbers out of your own rear end? This is so much salt and nonsense out of nowhere, wow. Getting 250 TPE for free is not an advantage, got it. Being able to just coast and get this without doing anything, or use that extra time to earn money elsewhere so you can buy equipment is not an advantage? Sure buddy.
As a newer player, and new to sim league myself, SHL is the first sim league I've been apart of. Hockey is my favorite sport, and I don't watch much else, but with this PT sharing happening, it gives people a chance to try out other sim leagues that they think they wouldn't have had time to do otherwise. I get that it takes away something from the SHL, but in the end what I seeing it does is allowing more people a chance to try different sim leagues. Not everyone has a bunch of time, and they still want to have fun. That doesn't mean that if someone does the PBE and decides to do SHL too, that doesn't mean that they will only be apart of PBE. IF they want to get drafted and be a good player, they will have to talk in the SHL, whether that means discord or the forums. People will still have to put in the work. It just gives people the extra flexibility to try different leagues without taking away from their "main" league.
08-21-2018, 10:15 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: A 15 career season isn't a fringe thing imho, I'd say something in the 12-15 season range is basically the norm for people who don't go inactive at some point, and many actually go longer. TDZ used an estimate of 18 TPE per season, over a 15 season career that would be 270 TPE, two seasons more and we are already in 300+ territory. Those are massive amounts of TPE that are being handed out.
And regarding your second point, the whole argument for this change, as laid out in the OP, is to bring in people who aren't interested in doing PTs here on the SHL (and to bring people to other leagues who don't want to do PTs there). So yes, those hypothetical people you mentioned are exactly the ones we are apparently trying to here with this change. And I'd agree with you, those sound like a work of fiction more than anything else. I don't think we will be able to bring in those people. All that will happen is that we bring in some people who don't have a lot of interest to begin with, and that the people who are already here but who are also in those other leagues will effectively spend less of their sim league time here on the SHL. That doesn't sound like a win-win to me.
It's also a zero TPE advantage over someone else that's actually doing their PTs. There is no advantage. There's still a PT being done, it's just on a different site. There's no "advantage" here. There's no magical shortcut being taken. You're mad that someone can participate in multiple leagues easier when you've already expressed that you literally don't give a shit about the other leagues, and the only thing that seems to be the difference is that the PT, a completely non-interactive piece of content that nobody else reads but the poster and the marker, has been made on a different site about a different topic. The rest of your post is speculation, pulled freshly from your arse, and does not deserve to be addressed. The points you are trying to express here make so little sense that I can't tell if you're trolling or not, and until you adequately explain exactly why it's so important that these dead, non-interactive pieces of content must be purely from this site and not some other one, I'm going to assume you are.
Lol, someone seems mad. Guess you just can't take someone disagreeing with you while you pull incorrect numbers out of your own rear end? This is so much salt and nonsense out of nowhere, wow. Getting 250 TPE for free is not an advantage, got it. Being able to just coast and get this without doing anything, or use that extra time to earn money elsewhere so you can buy equipment is not an advantage? Sure buddy.
08-21-2018, 10:40 AMAvakael Wrote: The points you are trying to express here make so little sense that I can't tell if you're trolling or not, and until you adequately explain exactly why it's so important that these dead, non-interactive pieces of content must be purely from this site and not some other one, I'm going to assume you are.
08-21-2018, 10:35 AMiamslm22 Wrote: I think the old school elitism of SHL is out in full force as well. A vocal minority attacking this idea, while the idea in PBE and NSFL has been literally universally celebrated. I don't understand how this negatively impacts the SHL.
Classy.
You really don't see how you, NUCK and others are talking down on us? It is literally true that the idea has had only positive comments in NSFL and PBE. It has been met by negative comments from people who SHL as the "premier sim league" and want to look down on other leagues. I don't see how saying old school elitism is being tactless or classless as your post implies. I have not resorted to personal attacks. I'm just stating facts.
08-21-2018, 10:15 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: A 15 career season isn't a fringe thing imho, I'd say something in the 12-15 season range is basically the norm for people who don't go inactive at some point, and many actually go longer. TDZ used an estimate of 18 TPE per season, over a 15 season career that would be 270 TPE, two seasons more and we are already in 300+ territory. Those are massive amounts of TPE that are being handed out.
And regarding your second point, the whole argument for this change, as laid out in the OP, is to bring in people who aren't interested in doing PTs here on the SHL (and to bring people to other leagues who don't want to do PTs there). So yes, those hypothetical people you mentioned are exactly the ones we are apparently trying to here with this change. And I'd agree with you, those sound like a work of fiction more than anything else. I don't think we will be able to bring in those people. All that will happen is that we bring in some people who don't have a lot of interest to begin with, and that the people who are already here but who are also in those other leagues will effectively spend less of their sim league time here on the SHL. That doesn't sound like a win-win to me.
It's also a zero TPE advantage over someone else that's actually doing their PTs. There is no advantage. There's still a PT being done, it's just on a different site. There's no "advantage" here. There's no magical shortcut being taken. You're mad that someone can participate in multiple leagues easier when you've already expressed that you literally don't give a shit about the other leagues, and the only thing that seems to be the difference is that the PT, a completely non-interactive piece of content that nobody else reads but the poster and the marker, has been made on a different site about a different topic. The rest of your post is speculation, pulled freshly from your arse, and does not deserve to be addressed. The points you are trying to express here make so little sense that I can't tell if you're trolling or not, and until you adequately explain exactly why it's so important that these dead, non-interactive pieces of content must be purely from this site and not some other one, I'm going to assume you are.
Lol, someone seems mad. Guess you just can't take someone disagreeing with you while you pull incorrect numbers out of your own rear end? This is so much salt and nonsense out of nowhere, wow. Getting 250 TPE for free is not an advantage, got it. Being able to just coast and get this without doing anything, or use that extra time to earn money elsewhere so you can buy equipment is not an advantage? Sure buddy.
You either do the PT on PBE or NSFL and then post it here or you do the PT on here. You do a PT either way whether it's the SHL prompt or not.
Nobody reads PTs. They don't bring value. That's a completely different problem, but as it is, they're just basically units of work. Doesn't matter where they come from.
We could try to "entice" people to do PT's in SHL. a mil for doing all in a season? 250k per pt? you get the idea.
08-21-2018, 10:53 AMNUCK Wrote: Exactly, then GM's will be drafting glorified bots .
How? Just because I link my PT from PBE I'm not active in the locker room? I have guys on my NSFL and PBE team who I know will be linking their SHL PTs, they are great to have in the locker room and are active in discussions.
08-21-2018, 10:35 AMiamslm22 Wrote: I think the old school elitism of SHL is out in full force as well. A vocal minority attacking this idea, while the idea in PBE and NSFL has been literally universally celebrated. I don't understand how this negatively impacts the SHL.
Classy.
You really don't see how you, NUCK and others are talking down on us? It is literally true that the idea has had only positive comments in NSFL and PBE. It has been met by negative comments from people who SHL as the "premier sim league" and want to look down on other leagues. I don't see how saying old school elitism is being tactless or classless as your post implies. I have not resorted to personal attacks. I'm just stating facts.
Just grouping people together and calling them elitist instead of replying to their actual arguments is not a personal attack? Oh come on now. I have not said a bad word about the NSFL/PBE or their members at all throughout this thread. I think we had a good civil discussion going on last night over the first few pages, until some people came in here (from both sides) today and started namecalling.
08-21-2018, 08:39 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: Instead I just get to watch people claim stuff for free that I have to work for quite hard.
Claim stuff for free? How do you figure that?
SHL has the easiest PTs of the three leagues involved here, if someone is linking a PT from another league they worked harder for that TPE than if they just did it here.
It was made pretty clear by multiple people that one of the goals is to bring in people who are currently active in the NSFL/PBE, but not here. No whether you believe that would work or not is actually point for debate, but there is a very clear intention here to bring in people who claim stuff from NSFL/PBE for SHL purposes.
You understand that the whole argumentation was about 'brining people from NSFL/PBE here' and that's the reason the argumentation here is around that? This affiliation pretty much works three ways. You can be in any league and use any PT of any league you want to use them in the others. This is actually a reason we could see more people coming here doing the PTs as you dont have to write as much as on the other leagues.
Yes, I understand that and I have adressed in multiple of my dreaded wall of texts why I don't think that won't actually be the case.
08-21-2018, 10:32 AMBeaver Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:23 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: It was made pretty clear by multiple people that one of the goals is to bring in people who are currently active in the NSFL/PBE, but not here. No whether you believe that would work or not is actually point for debate, but there is a very clear intention here to bring in people who claim stuff from NSFL/PBE for SHL purposes.
Yes. I'm not seeing how you figure that's "claim[ing] stuff for free." If they're claiming it that means they wrote 200 words about their football player, 200 words about their baseball player, or 150 words about their hockey player. They're still doing the PT.
It's quite simple for me, if no work was done on the SHL and no activity was created here, then it's claiming stuff for free. Which work was or was not done elsehwere has no implications here as far as I'm concerned. If you put in work in the NSFL, reap the rewards there and build a good player and if you find some extra time, you can then start participating in the SHL as well if that's what you wanna do.
08-21-2018, 10:50 AMiamslm22 Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:42 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:35 AMiamslm22 Wrote: I think the old school elitism of SHL is out in full force as well. A vocal minority attacking this idea, while the idea in PBE and NSFL has been literally universally celebrated. I don't understand how this negatively impacts the SHL.
Classy.
You really don't see how you, NUCK and others are talking down on us? It is literally true that the idea has had only positive comments in NSFL and PBE. It has been met by negative comments from people who SHL as the "premier sim league" and want to look down on other leagues. I don't see how saying old school elitism is being tactless or classless as your post implies. I have not resorted to personal attacks. I'm just stating facts.
I created the Wraiths as the original GM, I have joined almost every league but basketball. Most I was the top tpe player when they folded. I have seen the difference in the league and if this was VHL calling for help, we would have laughed them away. This idea sounds hurtful to our league, the league that NSFL and baseball are modeled after. Allowing other leagues issues to become an SHL problem as a result of shared effort reward, just sounds dangerous to what we have now. A excellent sim league with established roots built on its own and it's members, effort and Merritt.
08-21-2018, 10:35 AMiamslm22 Wrote: I think the old school elitism of SHL is out in full force as well. A vocal minority attacking this idea, while the idea in PBE and NSFL has been literally universally celebrated. I don't understand how this negatively impacts the SHL.
Classy.
You really don't see how you, NUCK and others are talking down on us? It is literally true that the idea has had only positive comments in NSFL and PBE. It has been met by negative comments from people who SHL as the "premier sim league" and want to look down on other leagues. I don't see how saying old school elitism is being tactless or classless as your post implies. I have not resorted to personal attacks. I'm just stating facts.
Just grouping people together and calling them elitist instead of replying to their actual arguments is not a personal attack? Oh come on now. I have not said a bad word about the NSFL/PBE or their members at all throughout this thread. I think we had a good civil discussion going on last night over the first few pages, until some people came in here (from both sides) today and started namecalling.
I have replied to several arguments - including yours last night. This discussion about how it's going to ruin the league is asinine. You assertion that's its going to be 250 TPE over the course of a career is also just wrong. That implies a person who is going to be here for 17 Seasons is going earn max equipment and fight regression for several seasons and is never going to do a PT on this site? That person is going to be hyper active on here anyway, it just eases their burden. Additionally, I would argue that the league is significantly better off having someone like that.
The straw man / slippery slope arguments that you and rutuu are arguing for aren't going to happen. I still haven't seen one downside presented from either side. It appears that the conservative SHLers would rather other sim leagues fail than care about making SHL worse through slightly less PTs.
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