08-22-2018, 03:50 PMjRuutu Wrote: What you want from me? Do you want me to pick all the members in HO and guess who were so up for the PT affiliation? I would like to know who voted yes/no on the case.
I mean if you go and call a bunch of people snakes, i'm surprised you don't have some of them in mind already. Cause you seems pretty adament that they kinda want to destroy the SHL from the inside. I don't know but i personnally dont go around calling a group of people malicious when one person did something i perceive wrong.
No I mean even Eggy said that he don´t remember exactly how the conversation started or who started it, but I´m guessing someone in the HO thought about this glorious idea and few more then thought it´s a good idea since it´s in place now. (More than one person)
I guess it still does not compute in my head to attack a group of person when you think *one* might be responsable, which btw you aren't even sure if the person is still in HO or ever was in HO. But please keep being the gift that keeps on giving, you are making my day much more enjoyable.
My apologies, the ´Thank you, SHL HO´ signature at the end of the first post in this topic confused me, I thought it was the HO who worked on this.
omg i dont know if you are serious or not here. For sureeeee the actual decision came from HO. but you dont even know who could have gave the idea to them. Eggy just said the whole HO voted yes. You don't even know who's in HO right now. Maybe everyone is in HO now ... hmmmm ....Everyone is a bunch of snakes then!! Let's all save the poor poor SHL.
08-22-2018, 04:13 PM(This post was last modified: 08-22-2018, 04:17 PM by RomanesEuntDomus.)
08-22-2018, 02:48 PMmajesiu Wrote:
08-22-2018, 01:58 PMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: Maybe my biggest point of concern here is that each league is unique and that different leagues are good at different things, which allows us to cater to different audiences and ultimately reach more people. By trying to find one size fits all solutions we are taking away some of that uniqueness, make leagues more similar and weaken them in the long term because they lose their character. I don't think that the SHL is better than those other leagues, but it is different and that is a good thing. Not every league should have same TPE-system or the same roster rules or the same sim engine or the same userbase, some should be more casual and some should be more try-hard and so on.
But that's basically it, while the amount of overall effort needed to earn all possible TPE in NSFL/SHL/PBE is similar the methods are still different and require quite a lot of work in every league on it's own.
The only thing that can easily be shared since it has almost the same requirements (as in written task/graphic) is the basic weekly Point Task.
Other than that SHL has its funday weekends, NSFL replaced their weekend tasks (which were worth 2 TPE) with week-long Trivia Tasks, PBE has it's LPT - long point tasks - that run along PTs and awards 3 TPE too with some money.
Other than that you have independent predictions system: weekly, seasonal, mock drafts, playoffs - each concerning their own league.
Each league also has their own money and equipment system, that can't be joined (and there are no talks or even desire to do so - money is one of the main drives for media/graphic/league jobs generation, every league is using very different rates of earning that $ too).
While all these leagues are far away from being casual ones like SCOR/SFC/GOHML (which I also personally enjoy) - I'm rather sure they won't lose their character, just because as you mention every each one of them has their unique history, sim, sport. The only, but most important connection is bond with people, that gets only strengthened the more experience you share with them, which this affiliation should help with freeing more time for engaging experiences. If not for amazing people that got me here from PBE (and earlier into NSFL) there is a big chance I didn't have this opportunity.
08-22-2018, 01:58 PMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: Like, I have seen so many new leagues be created over the leagues, most of them carbon-copies of the SHL or, even more frequently, the VHL, and almost all of them died. It took a long time for a third hockey sim league to establish itself in the GOMHL, and what was it what made them so successful? I'd argue it was the fact that they did NOT do what the SHL and VHL were already doing, but instead went for a new approach by creating a side-league with a very casual character that they grew in a controlled manner, with strict limitations on TPE-gain etc. And it worked very well for them and now we have three hockey sim leagues that can co-exist not because they aim to make things more similar, but because they are different and are aimed at different audiences. The more "hardcore" SHL, the "casual" GOMHL and the VHL that sits somewhere in between. Diversity between leagues is a very valuable thing.
Can we first get rid of the point these leagues are dying? PBE is in the middle of the season 6 hitting the highest number of active members both doing activity checks (over 90) and point tasks (over 60). We had 3 successful drafts in the row and found our own good method of recruitment that gets the league going - a lot of people coming from OOTP background already is participating in league jobs even as important as HO or streaming. One more draft and we will be nearing first expansion that is carefully planned.
NSFL is entering its 10th season, is even bigger and in good condition too.
We are already quite established, with redundancy that guarantees league continuity. We don't come here as beggars needing help, but as people passionate about sim league world that welcomed this opportunity and happily expanded current NSFL-PBE Affiliation, welcoming other willing to contribute to the initiative. This isn't an untested solution, so far results were promising and we gathered overwhelmingly good feedback.
It's obviously not set in stone as PTs Affiliation might come and go, but at least giving everyone opportunity to gain some perspective and a small push to try all leagues seems like a decent enough opportunity.
08-22-2018, 01:58 PMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: Now the NSFL and PBE do still have some of that diversity compared to the SHL due to the fact that they are about different spots, but making the progression systems of the three leagues more and more similar will not lead to more excitement and activity, but to people being more inclined to coast along and maybe even tire out quicker, because things are the same everywhere.
The progression systems are not getting more similar and weekly normal point tasks are the only element that is the same, as was mentioned in the first paragraph, if anything they are becoming more diverse and that's direction all leagues should probably go, because if there is one common stance in this thread is that current form of PTs feels like a chore not like an exciting thing you'd like spent some time doing it. Coasting along in other leagues was always a thing, but now people probably will be more inclined to spend more time on their players (which might be better too, and it's a rather fair statement that you enjoy the league more if your player is successful), since you get more time to even write media and talk in the locker room maybe even try league jobs, which are definitely more enjoyable than writing forced 150 words.
If anything that stops people from burning as it's avoiding repetitive tasks and giving them time to enjoy more fun aspects of the leagues.
The diversity doesn't end here, as mentioned sports are vastly different, PBE and NSFL gather quite big crowds during live streams too (far bigger than play by plays here). PBE doesn't have Thunderdome either since, to be honest, most of the people agreed it's quite an unnecessary place to have.
I welcome this opportunity to have a discussion since I see there is a lot of misinformation going on. I certainly hope everyone has good intentions in mind, we are all here to have fun and spent good time in the company of great people all around the world, aren't we?
Thanks for your detailed reply! Let me just make one thing clear because I think it is a misunderstanding, I did not mean to imply that your leagues are dying or even struggling, if you will check my posts throughout this thread then you will see that I never attacked or bashed your NSFL/PBE and it's members. My point was that I have seen many leagues die in the past and that one of the main reason why these leagues died was that they were too similar to the existing ones, that they never developed their own character so to speak. Once leagues started to diverge from the norm then suddenly new ones started to thrive, like GOMHL or SCOR and maybe NSFL and PBE as well (don't know enough about your history to judge that). This kind of diversity has been really good for all our leagues in the recent past, giving some of that up now and making everything more uniform is a step in the wrong direction. I won't make every league completely the same, but it will make things less diverse and unique.
And I do think that people waaaaay overstate how time-consuming the SHL is. If you don't hold a high-caliber job or aim for full equipment, then the weekly workload isn't very high. You have PTs that take what, 10-15 minutes? And then everything else is just making a post somewhere and some copy&paste, probably made a bit more complicated then it needs to be by our archaic update system, but not something that requires actual creative effort. Practice and activity checks, non-written PTs and Twitter, maybe some fantasy... All that stuff takes you maybe half an hour a week, an hour tops when there is a lot piling up. Everything beyond that, like articles and other ways to earn equipment money, are just the cherry on the cake that are there to separate the franchise-caliber players from the middle of the pack. And that kind of separation is important because otherwise progression becomes more and more meaningless as everyone ends up in the same TPE-range.
Maybe there is just a fundamental difference in peoples philosophy regarding the SHL. For me it is the one league that requires the most work, but in return is also the most rewarding. Other leagues are more accessible and you can have a lot of fun there - you don't have to work as hard for your success and have more of it quicker, and in return the results don't feel quite as rewarding. It's a trade-off and everyone has to decide for himself which system he likes more. I have won cups in both the SHL and the other leagues, but when my team makes it to the finals, I'm much more excited about it in the SHL than I am in the GOMHL or was in the other leagues in the past. And the reason for that is that we have to beat out 13 teams, not 6, that I had to work on turning my player into a superstar for maybe eight seasons, not just four, the fact that I'm on a roster with 15 actives, not 7, the fact that the league is less cyclical so you won't automatically turn into a contender after three years of tanking, and so on and so on. The downside is that due to all these factors, these finals appearances are much rarer and you might spend a entire career without ever getting close to the cup. In other leagues the experience is maybe a little less intense, but it's one that happens quicker and more often. Again, different systems with different benefits and there are good reasons to have both. Carving away at both systems and trying to force them to meet in the middle isn't the direction we should be taking. This change won't make that happen overnight, but it's a step in that direction, which is why I disagree with it.
08-22-2018, 03:53 PMEvok Wrote: I mean if you go and call a bunch of people snakes, i'm surprised you don't have some of them in mind already. Cause you seems pretty adament that they kinda want to destroy the SHL from the inside. I don't know but i personnally dont go around calling a group of people malicious when one person did something i perceive wrong.
No I mean even Eggy said that he don´t remember exactly how the conversation started or who started it, but I´m guessing someone in the HO thought about this glorious idea and few more then thought it´s a good idea since it´s in place now. (More than one person)
I guess it still does not compute in my head to attack a group of person when you think *one* might be responsable, which btw you aren't even sure if the person is still in HO or ever was in HO. But please keep being the gift that keeps on giving, you are making my day much more enjoyable.
My apologies, the ´Thank you, SHL HO´ signature at the end of the first post in this topic confused me, I thought it was the HO who worked on this.
omg i dont know if you are serious or not here. For sureeeee the actual decision came from HO. but you dont even know who could have gave the idea to them. Eggy just said the whole HO voted yes. You don't even know who's in HO right now. Maybe everyone is in HO now ... hmmmm ....Everyone is a bunch of snakes then!! Let's all save the poor poor SHL.
If all the members in HO voted yes, fair to say that they are responsible for this PT afflitiation coming into reality?
I guess part of my confusion is also, if you don't want to partake in this system you don't have to. I'm not going to be partaking in it. I agree, the SHL has always been a more involved sim league and required a decent time investment. The system we have here is also what's made it my favourite. I've tried probably 6 or 7 leagues at least, yet this is the only one where I've really lasted.
For me personally, this decision has absolutely no affect on myself or my player (or, let's be honest here, my recreate - I stopped updating when I realized how annoying regression is). I'll still be doing all the SHL PTs and updating my player as I would have otherwise, as will many others like RED or probably many of the people involved in this discussion. But what it could do is help the league on the whole. While we are the largest of these three leagues, that doesn't mean these other leagues have nothing to offer. We've heard from former members (both with and without current players) who now have an interest in giving the SHL another go. For them, this change is great. It means they can come back and give a league they once enjoyed another chance, become contributing members again and get involved in other aspects of the site. And it should help with member retention too.
If someone really comes and just "leeches" by doing the PT share and nothing else, they're never making out of the SMJHL. They'll end up hitting retirement with a 300-400 TPE player a la Sparks Lightning, and that will be that.
If they really want an elite or even a good player, they'll be forced to contribute in other areas. Media, graphics, even discussions like these could grab their attention. We'll get new, contributing members in the league even with a system that helps people do less work. And if it doesn't work out it doesn't work out - we're under no obligation to stick it out with this program, and I'm sure both leagues would be understanding if we decided it wasn't in our best interests.
But the last thing I want to do is not even try something like this and letting the sim league community pass us by. We're all better off when we work together rather than trying to fight each other, so let's at least give a symbiotic relationship a chance.
08-22-2018, 03:57 PMjRuutu Wrote: No I mean even Eggy said that he don´t remember exactly how the conversation started or who started it, but I´m guessing someone in the HO thought about this glorious idea and few more then thought it´s a good idea since it´s in place now. (More than one person)
I guess it still does not compute in my head to attack a group of person when you think *one* might be responsable, which btw you aren't even sure if the person is still in HO or ever was in HO. But please keep being the gift that keeps on giving, you are making my day much more enjoyable.
My apologies, the ´Thank you, SHL HO´ signature at the end of the first post in this topic confused me, I thought it was the HO who worked on this.
omg i dont know if you are serious or not here. For sureeeee the actual decision came from HO. but you dont even know who could have gave the idea to them. Eggy just said the whole HO voted yes. You don't even know who's in HO right now. Maybe everyone is in HO now ... hmmmm ....Everyone is a bunch of snakes then!! Let's all save the poor poor SHL.
If all the members in HO voted yes, fair to say that they are responsible for this PT afflitiation coming into reality?
You are so contradicting yourself, its hillarious.
First calling HO snakes, then admitting you have no one in mind cause you dont even know who HO is, then saying you cant name them cause you dont know who started the topic, then not even knowing if the topic starter is still or ever was in HO, then going vack about the fact HO has a secret agenda and they are the devil.
Please go on, little Jruutu, guide me to this hidden truth i havent found about the SHL.
08-22-2018, 04:24 PMEggy216 Wrote: I guess part of my confusion is also, if you don't want to partake in this system you don't have to. I'm not going to be partaking in it. I agree, the SHL has always been a more involved sim league and required a decent time investment. The system we have here is also what's made it my favourite. I've tried probably 6 or 7 leagues at least, yet this is the only one where I've really lasted.
For me personally, this decision has absolutely no affect on myself or my player (or, let's be honest here, my recreate - I stopped updating when I realized how annoying regression is). I'll still be doing all the SHL PTs and updating my player as I would have otherwise, as will many others like RED or probably many of the people involved in this discussion. But what it could do is help the league on the whole. While we are the largest of these three leagues, that doesn't mean these other leagues have nothing to offer. We've heard from former members (both with and without current players) who now have an interest in giving the SHL another go. For them, this change is great. It means they can come back and give a league they once enjoyed another chance, become contributing members again and get involved in other aspects of the site. And it should help with member retention too.
If someone really comes and just "leeches" by doing the PT share and nothing else, they're never making out of the SMJHL. They'll end up hitting retirement with a 300-400 TPE player a la Sparks Lightning, and that will be that.
If they really want an elite or even a good player, they'll be forced to contribute in other areas. Media, graphics, even discussions like these could grab their attention. We'll get new, contributing members in the league even with a system that helps people do less work. And if it doesn't work out it doesn't work out - we're under no obligation to stick it out with this program, and I'm sure both leagues would be understanding if we decided it wasn't in our best interests.
But the last thing I want to do is not even try something like this and letting the sim league community pass us by. We're all better off when we work together rather than trying to fight each other, so let's at least give a symbiotic relationship a chance.
08-22-2018, 04:02 PMEvok Wrote: I guess it still does not compute in my head to attack a group of person when you think *one* might be responsable, which btw you aren't even sure if the person is still in HO or ever was in HO. But please keep being the gift that keeps on giving, you are making my day much more enjoyable.
My apologies, the ´Thank you, SHL HO´ signature at the end of the first post in this topic confused me, I thought it was the HO who worked on this.
omg i dont know if you are serious or not here. For sureeeee the actual decision came from HO. but you dont even know who could have gave the idea to them. Eggy just said the whole HO voted yes. You don't even know who's in HO right now. Maybe everyone is in HO now ... hmmmm ....Everyone is a bunch of snakes then!! Let's all save the poor poor SHL.
If all the members in HO voted yes, fair to say that they are responsible for this PT afflitiation coming into reality?
You are so contradicting yourself, its hillarious.
First calling HO snakes, then admitting you have no one in mind cause you dont even know who HO is, then saying you cant name them cause you dont know who started the topic, then not even knowing if the topic starter is still or ever was in HO, then going vack about the fact HO has a secret agenda and they are the devil.
Please go on, little Jruutu, guide me to this hidden truth i havent found about the SHL.
So you make fun of me for not knowing what goes inside the HO, but you don´t say anything to Eggy when he in here says how he cant remember how the conversation started?
08-22-2018, 10:43 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: The one thing that really bothers me in these kinds of discussions is how people keep assuming bad intentions on the other side, could we please stop doing that? The people in favor of this change aren't lazy snakes who want to see the SHL die and the people against it aren't elitist pricks who hate all other leagues. We all want the SHL and sim leagues in general to thrive and simply disagree on whether this change will help with that goal or not.
Honestly read Jruutu's and Nuck's comments. Tell me their not being elitist pricks. Rutuu has had about as much logic here as he did when he went on some asinine anti Free Agency rant in GOMHL. These dudes called out PBE and NSFL "self admitted struggling leagues" which is obviously bullshit since both are in great shape.
Tell me this then, if PBE and NFSL are in so good shape - why the need for this PT afflitiation? If you guys got enough players, active league in general, people are having fun, drafts are solid usually, people do PT´s, write articles etc - why come here? Is it SHL that is the struggling one?
And yes, I´m the ´crazy´ one for not wanting to give rewards for just showing up.
Because we realize that having more members is better than having less members. Taking away SHL for a second, the NSFL-PBE affiliation has increased the active membership in both leagues. We already had "enough" players. Doesn't the SHL have enough players? Why go to reddit? Who cares. Lets stop trying to recruit, SHL has enough players.
08-22-2018, 04:24 PMEggy216 Wrote: I guess part of my confusion is also, if you don't want to partake in this system you don't have to. I'm not going to be partaking in it. I agree, the SHL has always been a more involved sim league and required a decent time investment. The system we have here is also what's made it my favourite. I've tried probably 6 or 7 leagues at least, yet this is the only one where I've really lasted.
For me personally, this decision has absolutely no affect on myself or my player (or, let's be honest here, my recreate - I stopped updating when I realized how annoying regression is). I'll still be doing all the SHL PTs and updating my player as I would have otherwise, as will many others like RED or probably many of the people involved in this discussion. But what it could do is help the league on the whole. While we are the largest of these three leagues, that doesn't mean these other leagues have nothing to offer. We've heard from former members (both with and without current players) who now have an interest in giving the SHL another go. For them, this change is great. It means they can come back and give a league they once enjoyed another chance, become contributing members again and get involved in other aspects of the site. And it should help with member retention too.
If someone really comes and just "leeches" by doing the PT share and nothing else, they're never making out of the SMJHL. They'll end up hitting retirement with a 300-400 TPE player a la Sparks Lightning, and that will be that.
If they really want an elite or even a good player, they'll be forced to contribute in other areas. Media, graphics, even discussions like these could grab their attention. We'll get new, contributing members in the league even with a system that helps people do less work. And if it doesn't work out it doesn't work out - we're under no obligation to stick it out with this program, and I'm sure both leagues would be understanding if we decided it wasn't in our best interests.
But the last thing I want to do is not even try something like this and letting the sim league community pass us by. We're all better off when we work together rather than trying to fight each other, so let's at least give a symbiotic relationship a chance.
I wouldn't be so sure about that first part. Just jump a few seasons into the future, where someone who is only in this league had to grind away at PTs for a year while watching other people simply post a link and claim the same reward. Don't you think that could lead to said person losing motivation after a while, to bitterness even?
According to many of the proponents of this new system, PTs in general suck and people shouldn't be forced to do them - unless they are SHLers only, in this case fuck them, they still have to do all those PTs that you guys think are shit. If you think that the PT system is such a burden then fix it or replace it with something else. Don't create a two-tier society where some people are forced to still participate in the broken system, whereas others get an easy way out.
08-22-2018, 04:08 PMjRuutu Wrote: My apologies, the ´Thank you, SHL HO´ signature at the end of the first post in this topic confused me, I thought it was the HO who worked on this.
omg i dont know if you are serious or not here. For sureeeee the actual decision came from HO. but you dont even know who could have gave the idea to them. Eggy just said the whole HO voted yes. You don't even know who's in HO right now. Maybe everyone is in HO now ... hmmmm ....Everyone is a bunch of snakes then!! Let's all save the poor poor SHL.
If all the members in HO voted yes, fair to say that they are responsible for this PT afflitiation coming into reality?
You are so contradicting yourself, its hillarious.
First calling HO snakes, then admitting you have no one in mind cause you dont even know who HO is, then saying you cant name them cause you dont know who started the topic, then not even knowing if the topic starter is still or ever was in HO, then going vack about the fact HO has a secret agenda and they are the devil.
Please go on, little Jruutu, guide me to this hidden truth i havent found about the SHL.
So you make fun of me for not knowing what goes inside the HO, but you don´t say anything to Eggy when he in here says how he cant remember how the conversation started?
I personally don't have any crusades against them. I can't care less if eggy knows or not how the conversation started. How a conversation *started* is really different matter than knowing who's in HO, an information pretty accessible to everyone. On the other hand i know who's in HO and who isn't. :D
08-22-2018, 04:24 PMEggy216 Wrote: I guess part of my confusion is also, if you don't want to partake in this system you don't have to. I'm not going to be partaking in it. I agree, the SHL has always been a more involved sim league and required a decent time investment. The system we have here is also what's made it my favourite. I've tried probably 6 or 7 leagues at least, yet this is the only one where I've really lasted.
For me personally, this decision has absolutely no affect on myself or my player (or, let's be honest here, my recreate - I stopped updating when I realized how annoying regression is). I'll still be doing all the SHL PTs and updating my player as I would have otherwise, as will many others like RED or probably many of the people involved in this discussion. But what it could do is help the league on the whole. While we are the largest of these three leagues, that doesn't mean these other leagues have nothing to offer. We've heard from former members (both with and without current players) who now have an interest in giving the SHL another go. For them, this change is great. It means they can come back and give a league they once enjoyed another chance, become contributing members again and get involved in other aspects of the site. And it should help with member retention too.
If someone really comes and just "leeches" by doing the PT share and nothing else, they're never making out of the SMJHL. They'll end up hitting retirement with a 300-400 TPE player a la Sparks Lightning, and that will be that.
If they really want an elite or even a good player, they'll be forced to contribute in other areas. Media, graphics, even discussions like these could grab their attention. We'll get new, contributing members in the league even with a system that helps people do less work. And if it doesn't work out it doesn't work out - we're under no obligation to stick it out with this program, and I'm sure both leagues would be understanding if we decided it wasn't in our best interests.
But the last thing I want to do is not even try something like this and letting the sim league community pass us by. We're all better off when we work together rather than trying to fight each other, so let's at least give a symbiotic relationship a chance.
I wouldn't be so sure about that first part. Just jump a few seasons into the future, where someone who is only in this league had to grind away at PTs for a year while watching other people simply post a link and claim the same reward. Don't you think that could lead to said person losing motivation after a while, to bitterness even?
According to many of the proponents of this new system, PTs in general suck and people shouldn't be forced to do them - unless they are SHLers only, in this case fuck them, they still have to do all those PTs that you guys think are shit. If you think that the PT system is such a burden then fix it or replace it with something else. Don't create a two-tier society where some people are forced to still participate in the broken system, whereas others get an easy way out.
08-22-2018, 10:43 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: The one thing that really bothers me in these kinds of discussions is how people keep assuming bad intentions on the other side, could we please stop doing that? The people in favor of this change aren't lazy snakes who want to see the SHL die and the people against it aren't elitist pricks who hate all other leagues. We all want the SHL and sim leagues in general to thrive and simply disagree on whether this change will help with that goal or not.
Honestly read Jruutu's and Nuck's comments. Tell me their not being elitist pricks. Rutuu has had about as much logic here as he did when he went on some asinine anti Free Agency rant in GOMHL. These dudes called out PBE and NSFL "self admitted struggling leagues" which is obviously bullshit since both are in great shape.
Tell me this then, if PBE and NFSL are in so good shape - why the need for this PT afflitiation? If you guys got enough players, active league in general, people are having fun, drafts are solid usually, people do PT´s, write articles etc - why come here? Is it SHL that is the struggling one?
And yes, I´m the ´crazy´ one for not wanting to give rewards for just showing up.
Because we realize that having more members is better than having less members. Taking away SHL for a second, the NSFL-PBE affiliation has increased the active membership in both leagues. We already had "enough" players. Doesn't the SHL have enough players? Why go to reddit? Who cares. Lets stop trying to recruit, SHL has enough players.
I´m guessing SHL does not have enough players when the league teamed up with PBE/NFSL. Why recruit like this? If your product is good enough, don´t you think the people are interested in joining then anyways without having to use these cheap tactics - almost ´paying´ them to come in?
08-22-2018, 04:13 PMEvok Wrote: omg i dont know if you are serious or not here. For sureeeee the actual decision came from HO. but you dont even know who could have gave the idea to them. Eggy just said the whole HO voted yes. You don't even know who's in HO right now. Maybe everyone is in HO now ... hmmmm ....Everyone is a bunch of snakes then!! Let's all save the poor poor SHL.
If all the members in HO voted yes, fair to say that they are responsible for this PT afflitiation coming into reality?
You are so contradicting yourself, its hillarious.
First calling HO snakes, then admitting you have no one in mind cause you dont even know who HO is, then saying you cant name them cause you dont know who started the topic, then not even knowing if the topic starter is still or ever was in HO, then going vack about the fact HO has a secret agenda and they are the devil.
Please go on, little Jruutu, guide me to this hidden truth i havent found about the SHL.
So you make fun of me for not knowing what goes inside the HO, but you don´t say anything to Eggy when he in here says how he cant remember how the conversation started?
I personally don't have any crusades against them. I can't care less if eggy knows or not how the conversation started. How a conversation *started* is really different matter than knowing who's in HO, an information pretty accessible to everyone. On the other hand i know who's in HO and who isn't. :D
But still you want answers from someone who is not in the HO? If you know who is in the HO, why are you asking me to give you the names? How the conversation started is a good place to start on finding out who the snakes are. I´m surprised if the idea and the users who were backing it up in the beginning are not standing in the PBE/NFSL user corner.
08-22-2018, 04:18 PMjRuutu Wrote: If all the members in HO voted yes, fair to say that they are responsible for this PT afflitiation coming into reality?
You are so contradicting yourself, its hillarious.
First calling HO snakes, then admitting you have no one in mind cause you dont even know who HO is, then saying you cant name them cause you dont know who started the topic, then not even knowing if the topic starter is still or ever was in HO, then going vack about the fact HO has a secret agenda and they are the devil.
Please go on, little Jruutu, guide me to this hidden truth i havent found about the SHL.
So you make fun of me for not knowing what goes inside the HO, but you don´t say anything to Eggy when he in here says how he cant remember how the conversation started?
I personally don't have any crusades against them. I can't care less if eggy knows or not how the conversation started. How a conversation *started* is really different matter than knowing who's in HO, an information pretty accessible to everyone. On the other hand i know who's in HO and who isn't. :D
But still you want answers from someone who is not in the HO? If you know who is in the HO, why are you asking me to give you the names? How the conversation started is a good place to start on finding out who the snakes are. I´m surprised if the idea and the users who were backing it up in the beginning are not standing in the PBE/NFSL user corner.
It is a dick move to make accusations you can't even somewhat prove.
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08-22-2018, 04:18 PMjRuutu Wrote: If all the members in HO voted yes, fair to say that they are responsible for this PT afflitiation coming into reality?
You are so contradicting yourself, its hillarious.
First calling HO snakes, then admitting you have no one in mind cause you dont even know who HO is, then saying you cant name them cause you dont know who started the topic, then not even knowing if the topic starter is still or ever was in HO, then going vack about the fact HO has a secret agenda and they are the devil.
Please go on, little Jruutu, guide me to this hidden truth i havent found about the SHL.
So you make fun of me for not knowing what goes inside the HO, but you don´t say anything to Eggy when he in here says how he cant remember how the conversation started?
I personally don't have any crusades against them. I can't care less if eggy knows or not how the conversation started. How a conversation *started* is really different matter than knowing who's in HO, an information pretty accessible to everyone. On the other hand i know who's in HO and who isn't. :D
But still you want answers from someone who is not in the HO? If you know who is in the HO, why are you asking me to give you the names? How the conversation started is a good place to start on finding out who the snakes are. I´m surprised if the idea and the users who were backing it up in the beginning are not standing in the PBE/NFSL user corner.
I, personally, didn't ask for you to say name, I merely said it was a really good idea to start calling out people without actually knowing who we were trying to call out. Then you asked me what i wanted for you and I tried to find some sort of logic in your speech. That's how our little conversation started and if you can find that said logic please just help me out with this cause i'm still searching it.
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