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Obsidian311 · 05-29-2019, 11:31 PM

Here is the deal. If Minnesota would have come out and been like "bro what are you doing, delete this" I could see levying the punishment against Daco and banning the Chiefs from ever signing the tampered players. But the punishment for what happened given the written rules is too much. I hate that we continue to punish and retroactively change rules. This isn't a start up, this league has been running for over 6 years now. Head office needs to sit and read through the rulebook and close the vague rules because this kills the fun because people are going to quit doing edgy media all together for fear they will be punished for a rule that doesn't exist.

Winter is Coming · 05-29-2019, 11:31 PM

05-29-2019, 11:23 PMGrapehead Wrote:
05-29-2019, 10:55 PMWinter is Coming Wrote: I don't think what Daco did was nearly as wrong as Wally, especially considering the fact that Daco wasn't the head GM and pretty much just vanished after he posted his article. Not saying Minnesota shouldn't have some sort of punishment, but something this harsh really doesn't fit the crime, IMO.

I wasn't comparing their "violation", just the idea that MIN shouldn't be punished if Daco left, cause Wally being gone had no impact on the POR punishment.

I don't think Minnesota should get off without anything if I am being objective, because ultimately, Shmurph did hire him as his co-GM. However, the fact that the primary "culprit" has seemingly already gone MIA (and the team losing a valuable member/player) and that he was just a recently hired co-GM (as opposed to a head GM like Wally) shouldn't warrant as harsh of an overall team punishment.

Mac · 05-29-2019, 11:38 PM

My car broke down and I'm late.

I got beer and pretzels though

Samsung virtual assistant · 05-30-2019, 12:07 AM

Wannabefinn tampered me once

nour · 05-30-2019, 12:23 AM

05-29-2019, 11:38 PMMac Wrote: My car broke down and I'm late.

I got beer and pretzels though

what kinda beer?

**First GM in SMJHL history to win 3 Four Star Cups back-to-back-to-back**

kit · 05-30-2019, 12:26 AM

05-30-2019, 12:07 AMSwegButthole Wrote: Wannabefinn tampered me once

he tampers me allthe time

nour · 05-30-2019, 12:46 AM

Thread is dying down but I'm gonna chime in and say I don't really think the rule needs that much re-writing. Making the rule too specific and too written out runs the risk of opening more loopholes for GMs to skirt the line of tampering, while being able to argue that their actions aren't technically tampering. ESPECIALLY with public comments, the rule being based on what is "within reason", while a bit vague and sort of leaving the ruling up to whoever is in HO at the time, for the most part should be pretty straight forward as to what is actually a reasonable comment to make on the forums. If you're going to publicly cite 4 players all from the same team, argue reasons why they should play for you, and also provide reasoning for why their current team (that they're still under contract for) isn't the best place for them, that's pretty cut and dry tampering, whether some people here want to acknowledge it or not. Daco could have listed multiple RFAs from DIFFERENT teams, or left out the incentivizing bits of writing to make it seem like he was luring players to come play for MIN while under contract. Hell, a lot of his points about those RFAs weren't even bad points, but why post them publicly at all instead of containing it to a management channel where you can more properly act on them? Just some general food for thought.

That being said, I think most can agree, as it stands, the current tampering penalty is far too severe, and obviously doesn't do enough to deter people from tampering since it has still happened multiple times since I joined the site in S35. It WAY too harshly punishes full teams of active, good community members for the mistakes of 1 or 2 GMs. Maybe a revised punishment would do better to keep the general group of people happy, without making tampering easy to get away with. Something like:

- Forfeiture of the team in question's upcoming 1st round pick, and the following season's 2nd round pick (e.g. in this scenario Minnesota loses their S48 1st round selection, and their s49 2nd round selection). If this is too lenient you could just knock it from three 1st round picks to two
- $5,000,000 budget fine for the team
- The team in question will not be allowed to sign active free agents for the remainder of the season
- 40 game suspension for the player of the team in question's offending GM(s)

I feel like this still hammers home that tampering isn't tolerated in the SHL, but doesn't maliciously punish full teams and put them out of commission for 5+ seasons, and more closely focuses on making sure the GM who made the mistake still receives the full extent of the punishment. I had fun shitposting but idk wanted to get serious for a bit and put some actual discussion-provoking comments out there, someone feel free to chime in with thoughts, sorry 4 rambling.

**First GM in SMJHL history to win 3 Four Star Cups back-to-back-to-back**

DeletedAtUserRequest · 05-30-2019, 01:02 AM

05-29-2019, 11:11 PMWinter is Coming Wrote:
05-29-2019, 11:03 PMfoehammer007 Wrote: Did daco actually say he is leaving or just hasn't been around since memorial day weekend?
Ever since he made that post, he has vanished without a word to the team or Shmurph. So yeah, pretty much a hit it and quit it scenario right now.

Not necessarily though... not everyone is going to log in knowing there’s 350 shitstorm posts about you, even if he does apologize right now that’s not going to stop the 800 L’s he’s about to get in these posts. He may have realize he messed up and took a few days off to clear his head. Aside from what just happened he’s been a active and engaged member and a recreate with a long history on the site so he may come back and face the situation when this dies down.. but sometimes a site of vitriol thrown at you is not worth reading...

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Winter is Coming · 05-30-2019, 01:13 AM

05-30-2019, 01:02 AMMike Izzy Wrote:
05-29-2019, 11:11 PMWinter is Coming Wrote: Ever since he made that post, he has vanished without a word to the team or Shmurph. So yeah, pretty much a hit it and quit it scenario right now.

Not necessarily though... not everyone is going to log in knowing there’s 350 shitstorm posts about you, even if he does apologize right now that’s not going to stop the 800 L’s he’s about to get in these posts. He may have realize he messed up and took a few days off to clear his head. Aside from what just happened he’s been a active and engaged member and a recreate with a long history on the site so he may come back and face the situation when this dies down.. but sometimes a site of vitriol thrown at you is not worth reading...

Oh, I'm not doubting he may return, but as of now, he's yet to return, and I certainly hope that we didn't lose an active member over what I'm sure was an honest mistake on his part.

***notorioustig*** · 05-30-2019, 01:40 AM

05-30-2019, 12:26 AMkit Wrote:
05-30-2019, 12:07 AMSwegButthole Wrote: Wannabefinn tampered me once

he tampers me allthe time

Show me on this doll where Finn tampered you

***Wally*** · 05-30-2019, 01:56 AM

05-29-2019, 10:31 PMGrapehead Wrote:
05-29-2019, 10:29 PM.bojo Wrote: Still. Daco is pretty much gone now. The team and the players now have to pay for it. Who is really being punished here.

Wally did literally the same thing... it doesn't matter. I feel for Shmurph, I really do cause I cleaned up a similar mess, but it's still the same with any team punishment. There is always an individual responsible, and that individual could always leave as a result, so we can't weigh that in a decision like this.

The fuck I did. I prevented two trade steals and tried to argue for a lesser punishment for the team, knowing I would be giving a resignation and/or fired. So yeah I could’ve walked, but I CHOSE not to.

This delayed rebuild for San Fran is also a sliver of bull shit too, cause you guys traded a shit ton of picks to get to that Presidents Cup for a short term goal.

Yeah I screwed the pooch, but I didn’t simply walk the fuck out. Not to mention you cut me... when I somehow had multiple offers for my goalie, so don’t give me the no one was offering anything when I came back so you could get something for my player.

Yeah, you cleaned up a mess that I started. What did I walk into as Co in S32? Wasn’t a hand wrapped gift... that’s for fuck sure. God damn.

As for this punishment... damn it’s harsh, but Finn has a right to be pissed off as he has invested time into his assets. The rule sucks, but until they provides more clarity there are going to be these kinds of decisions based on ambiguous parameters.

kit · 05-30-2019, 02:00 AM

05-30-2019, 01:13 AMWinter is Coming Wrote:
05-30-2019, 01:02 AMMike Izzy Wrote: Not necessarily though... not everyone is going to log in knowing there’s 350 shitstorm posts about you, even if he does apologize right now that’s not going to stop the 800 L’s he’s about to get in these posts. He may have realize he messed up and took a few days off to clear his head. Aside from what just happened he’s been a active and engaged member and a recreate with a long history on the site so he may come back and face the situation when this dies down.. but sometimes a site of vitriol thrown at you is not worth reading...
Oh, I'm not doubting he may return, but as of now, he's yet to return, and I certainly hope that we didn't lose an active member over what I'm sure was an honest mistake on his part.

How was this a mistake lmao

Wasty · 05-30-2019, 02:13 AM

05-30-2019, 01:13 AMWinter is Coming Wrote:
05-30-2019, 01:02 AMMike Izzy Wrote: Not necessarily though... not everyone is going to log in knowing there’s 350 shitstorm posts about you, even if he does apologize right now that’s not going to stop the 800 L’s he’s about to get in these posts. He may have realize he messed up and took a few days off to clear his head. Aside from what just happened he’s been a active and engaged member and a recreate with a long history on the site so he may come back and face the situation when this dies down.. but sometimes a site of vitriol thrown at you is not worth reading...
Oh, I'm not doubting he may return, but as of now, he's yet to return, and I certainly hope that we didn't lose an active member over what I'm sure was an honest mistake on his part.

#40 Niclas Wastlund - W - VANCOUVER WHALERS Whalers

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Mac · 05-30-2019, 03:09 AM

05-30-2019, 12:23 AMnour Wrote:
05-29-2019, 11:38 PMMac Wrote: My car broke down and I'm late.

I got beer and pretzels though

what kinda beer?

Bud light.

I'm not going to drink it, I just brought it

jRuutu · 05-30-2019, 06:16 AM

I reckon he knew exactly what he was doing and has been following this mess as one of the guests. Why write only about one team? Because it´s easier. Why leave all of a sudden? Part of the plan. Maybe he knew he does not have the time to be in SHL anymore or got bored and decided to leave with a bang. Maybe this was his plan all along when coming back, get into a position where he can do something.

Trolls and some people are just like that, they like to watch the chaos. Some throw games in video games and ruin it for basically everybody else in the match, same level stuff now here.

Should put more focus on why something happened, especially in this case. If a ´new´ co-GM does lets face it - pretty shitty article that is dancing on the edge of being tampering or not and then just leaves after doing it, why he did it? Is that same as in the shadows trying to poach players from other teams or something else, a troll playing his little game. Do they both need to be punished the same way, when does it stop? What if this is the new norm for co-GM´s and people in places with power to go out - create chaos as they step out?

I get it, if you go easy now - leaving can be seen as one way to get the punishment down in the future and it can be abused, buuuut if you look this case and this case only, pretty clear to me at least what was the plan and motive behind this, one user doing something for the lulz and league as a stiff organization eating it up. ´Woah woah, look at those words - he is clearly trying to steal Buffalo´s players´.

What if a person who works at Tesco during his lunch break comes and throws pile of dog shaite at your kitchen window and it breaks, are you going to now sue Tesco because he is clearly representing Tesco because he has the uniform on? Did Tesco sent him to do it or did the person do something like that on his own?

Daco should be the only one who is punished in this case.

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