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***39alaska39*** · 05-01-2020, 01:15 PM

05-01-2020, 01:09 PMsve7en Wrote:
05-01-2020, 01:07 PM39alaska39 Wrote: Isn’t it also not a best of 5? I’m not the best at math, but NOLA being up 2-1 means they could win 2 of the next 4 and its over

I mean, he was talking about the series from game 3 onward.

Ah, that was v unclear. My bad

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JumpierPegasus · 05-01-2020, 01:17 PM

Mack · 05-01-2020, 01:19 PM

This is a very weak punishment and it does seem like bias comes into play in HO decisions. At least there should be some sort of sim punishment. Make them do reverse lines for the next game. Their shittiest three TPE players should be their first line. Their worst two defenders should be their top pairing.

If Joe had come out and said he made the lines and it was his choice to do this, would the punishment be any different? In shouldn't be in my opinion. The rules are on the organization to follow and any GM who is going to put a coach in place better make sure he knows what the rules are or it will come back to fuck the organization. If this punishment is less because a coach did it who claims he just doesn't know the rules, that is complete bullshit.

If this penalty is the max penalty for this, even if the GM of the team straight up does this, then every single GM should just fuck it up like this for every game 7.

If this penalty is lower because it's an ignorant coach, then every GM better make sure to put some clown as their coach so they can just always claim ignorance if shit happens.

Needing a unique player on the first three forward lines is such a basic rule, what they did completely goes against the spirit of the game. What did they think would happen? It would work and everyone would high five them and from now on every team would be running a 3rd line with no center on it? Whoever did this had to know they were going against fair play and trying to be sneaky little shits.

grok · 05-01-2020, 01:25 PM

05-01-2020, 01:15 PM39alaska39 Wrote:
05-01-2020, 01:09 PMsve7en Wrote: I mean, he was talking about the series from game 3 onward.
Ah, that was v unclear. My bad

I mean, considering the rule violation also changed an unpredictable momentum variable to be in NOLA's favor for game 3, I agree with your original comment here.

jRuutu · 05-01-2020, 01:27 PM

https://www.gofundme.com/f/jRuutu-nola

JT3 · 05-01-2020, 01:34 PM

I would just like to point out that I have no hard feelings towards JoeK and TDZ. I do believe that they were not aware of what had happened. While I believe at the end of the day they are responsible for those they choose to hire, shit happens, people fuck up. I know Joe is beating himself up about it and knowing Joe, that in itself is punishment enough for him.

What I am most upset about is the original handling of the situation by HO. I don't believe they truly took enough time to think out the severity of the situation. Not only did they allow the playoffs to progress without properly working to identify any possible solutions (whether or not there are any, which as far as I am aware there isn't, as a re-sim is not really possible), but the actual punishment handed out is a JOKE. I have gone on the record in saying that I don't even care about seeing NOLA lose a bunch of picks or have players suspended or anything like that. It is the idea that HO believes that actively breaking the rules in the playoffs warrants only THREATENING the loss of a 2nd round pick. They didn't even take the pick. They just threatened to do it if NOLA cheated again. That is fucking ridiculous.

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***frithjofr*** · 05-01-2020, 01:39 PM

05-01-2020, 12:38 PMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote:
05-01-2020, 12:35 PMFuzzSHL Wrote: I wasn't trying to throw them under the bus. They came out and tried to put the blame on themselves since they're the ones who did lines. Its not like nobody said anything at all and I said what I said.

Also. I know this isn't going to make things any better, but you guys dominated us Game 1. We got Game 2 from this situation. Game 3 saw both teams have actual lines. Its a clean best-of-5 now. I know that doesn't make any of this better, but...

This is an ugly situation. We all just want to move on from it. Lessons have been learned, no one from NOLA is trying to fight it. I can't make things better, I can't and won't make excuses. All I was trying to ask with my last comment was to not trash the two guys who are fucking furious that this happened.

Considering what Slash said in that quote above seems like he isn't being thrown under the bus, he's literally coming outright and saying "this is on frith and I"

This is entirely correct. Let this fall on me. I've read the response post and the guy's right, I never read the entire rulebook. Ignorance of the rules isn't an excuse, and I'm not trying to make one. You can read my post to see exactly what happened and how. I'd hope that my reputation on the site as an honest and open person proceeds me. I believe wholeheartedly in the spirit of competition and I'd never knowingly do something to undermine it.

I fucked up, there's no two ways about it. I've made my apology in public as well as an apology to Wasty in private and several other LAP players who I know on a more personal level. It's on me for not knowing the rules, it's on me for making those lines.

For what it's worth, early in the season Joe approved every line change I made and was often involved in improving the lines himself. Before the post season Slash and I were simming so much and trying so many different things constantly we didn't even bother running them by Joe. We absolutely should have, and we kept our GM in the dark. Joe would have had absolutely no reason to believe we were breaking any rules because, to that point in the season, we had submitted 100% legal lines.

Mayuu · 05-01-2020, 02:26 PM

05-01-2020, 01:39 PMfrithjofr Wrote:
05-01-2020, 12:38 PMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote: Considering what Slash said in that quote above seems like he isn't being thrown under the bus, he's literally coming outright and saying "this is on frith and I"

This is entirely correct. Let this fall on me. I've read the response post and the guy's right, I never read the entire rulebook. Ignorance of the rules isn't an excuse, and I'm not trying to make one. You can read my post to see exactly what happened and how. I'd hope that my reputation on the site as an honest and open person proceeds me. I believe wholeheartedly in the spirit of competition and I'd never knowingly do something to undermine it.

I fucked up, there's no two ways about it. I've made my apology in public as well as an apology to Wasty in private and several other LAP players who I know on a more personal level. It's on me for not knowing the rules, it's on me for making those lines.

For what it's worth, early in the season Joe approved every line change I made and was often involved in improving the lines himself. Before the post season Slash and I were simming so much and trying so many different things constantly we didn't even bother running them by Joe. We absolutely should have, and we kept our GM in the dark. Joe would have had absolutely no reason to believe we were breaking any rules because, to that point in the season, we had submitted 100% legal lines.

imagine simping your GM

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ImShiny · 05-01-2020, 02:43 PM

04-30-2020, 08:51 PMSlashACM Wrote: https://youtu.be/oGFDk6_7G68

high quality

ThatDamnWalrus · 05-01-2020, 02:47 PM

Weak punishment for blatant intentional cheating. What was the desired outcome of leaving their 3rd line blank? HO letting GM's play dumb.

Nobody · 05-01-2020, 03:10 PM

Fire the GMs!

**RomanesEuntDomus** · 05-01-2020, 03:13 PM

05-01-2020, 11:10 AMJT3 Wrote: This is honestly an absolute fucking joke. Blatantly cheating in the playoffs gets you a softer punishment than using inappropriate language? NOLA straight up tried to exploit the lines in game 1, it didn't work, so they TRIED AGAIN in game 2? And GM's lose pay and a slight fine to cap next season? Are you fucking kidding me? Fuck LAP for following the rules, right? Although I guess the fun and enjoyment of the league doesn't matter for LAP players, because nobody likes us anyways, right @bluesfan55?

@JKortesi81 you've been awfully silent on the whole ordeal. As someone who was VERY vocally against HAM exploiting the sim (although technically not illegal), your own coaches have used lines that not only breaks the rules in two games but also provides a competitive advantage for the rest of the series and your response is, "oops, i didn't know, not a fan of it"?. I've always had a lot of respect for you man but the radio silence on this from both HO and NOLA management is disheartening. As GM you are responsible for the actions of your team. Step up and own it.

I guess the take-a-way from all this is that everybody should just save this strat for a game 7 and just take a slight slap on the wrist for it. Cause whats a couple mil in pay and 2m in cap compared to a cup?

05-01-2020, 09:42 AMGrapehead Wrote: This sends a pretty clear message that trying to follow the rules is a fools game, and we should all just start doing whatever the fuck we want and claiming "we didn't know the rules"

READ THE FUCKING RULEBOOK EVERYONE

Not much to add to these two comments tbh but I'm gonna do it anyway because it wouldn't be a RED post without multiple paragraphs.

For starters, this punishment is a non-punishment essentially. A 4M fine for someone with an 80M bank account and a 2M cap penalty for a team that had like 10M in cap space this season that they could fill with a rookie? That's nothing, not even a slap on the wrist. There was absolutely nothing done to rectify the effects that their illegal lines had on these playoffs when there are plenty of things that could've been done: A re-sim, suspensions to the GMs/Coaches, forcing them to play a certain number of games with auto-lines... Some of these things still are options that would rectify this and there probably are other methods that I haven't even thought of. Instead, on top of being inconsequential in the first place the punishment also just applies to next season and not these playoffs, so they don't fix any of the injustices that happened.

I guess it's tempting to tell LAP to just "suck it up" and play better, but in a series that was always expected to be close, going two games with illegal lines and then carrying the momentum boost from these games into the rest of the series is a huge factor. And I don't think I even need to point out how terrible of a precedent this sets and the fact that HO specifically pointed out in the OP that this is gonna be the standard punishment from now on is just mind-boggling. If you are actually gonna stick to this then you aren't just fucking over LAP but the league as a whole.

I was also surprised to see how much praise the people responsible got for their "apology" post which didn't make a strong case at all in my eyes. To start things off, they admitted that this wasn't a misclick or mistake but a very deliberate choice. They identified some holes in their roster, tested a bunch of strategies to deal with those issues, found an illegal one that worked, applied it, got the results they desired and when caught, plead ignorance and got away with not even a slap on the wrist. How does that make things better? Ignorance isn't a good excuse in the first place but the fact that there was ignorance from two sides, the Coaches who claim they didn't know the rules and the GMs who apparently had no idea what their coaches were doing, doesn't make things better, it makes them worse. It's either a sign of a deliberate approach or of gross incompetence - and both these things should be suspendable. Not knowing about the rules or delegating tasks to an underling that hasn't been properly trained apparently can't be a get out of jail free card.

The incompetence angle looks bad for them already but you could take this even further if you assume it was deliberate, and it's not that far-fetched of an interpretation. Do you really expect people to believe that you spent hours upon hours test-simming but didn't have the five seconds to look at the rules. Especially since the Lines-portion of the rules isn't a convoluted set of paragraphs like this post, it's literally two sentences. The very first of them is the exact rule you went on to break. I mean, you weren't just looking for a good ingame strategy that worked, you were deliberately looking for an exploit - keeping certain positions on your lines empty so that the game would auto-fill them a certain way is not a real hockey strategy, it's trying to manipulate an engine that has faults just like any other one. The very least you need to do when trying to exploit an engine this way is to keep an eye on the rules and make sure that you are at least technically not breaking any of them. You didn't even manage to do that. This should be punished way harsher no matter if we assume incompetence or malice.

I hope HO will supply some additional explanation on their thought process and eventually reconsider their decision because it's not too late for that. Because as it stands right now, this doesn't make any sense at all. And I think the reponses in here also show quite clearly how united the league is in thinking that this was a terrible decision, when we even have a bunch of people agreeing on this here in the thread who normally don't see eye to eye on anything. And I don't remember anyone vocally supporting this decision at all, aside from some people on NOLA maybe who are of course very happy to graciously accept this tough but fair punishment.

SlashACM · 05-01-2020, 03:26 PM

05-01-2020, 03:13 PMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: The incompetence angle looks bad for them already but you could take this even further if you assume it was deliberate, and it's not that far-fetched of an interpretation. Do you really expect people to believe that you spent hours upon hours test-simming but didn't have the five seconds to look at the rules. Especially since the Lines-portion of the rules isn't a convoluted set of paragraphs like this post, it's literally two sentences. The very first of them is the exact rule you went on to break. I mean, you weren't just looking for a good ingame strategy that worked, you were deliberately looking for an exploit - keeping certain positions on your lines empty so that the game would auto-fill them a certain way is not a real hockey strategy, it's trying to manipulate an engine that has faults just like any other one. The very least you need to do when trying to exploit an engine this way is to keep an eye on the rules and make sure that you are at least technically not breaking any of them. You didn't even manage to do that. This should be punished way harsher no matter if we assume incompetence or malice.

We weren't looking for an exploit, in fact I was trying to put bonk on the third line but we physically couldn't do that in the game, so putting zadina on the fourth would sometimes get bonk on the third which worked for me

*Leppish* · 05-01-2020, 03:28 PM

Happy friday everyone!

**.bojo** · 05-01-2020, 03:29 PM

05-01-2020, 03:28 PMLeppish Wrote: Happy friday everyone!

Your avatar is beautiful

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