09-23-2020, 04:13 PMjRuutu Wrote: And what comes down to locker rooms, I have hard time believing Serpe alone is enough to turn free agents away, the hot team with a lot of ´SHL famous´ users is cool with Serpe in the room but Free agents turn their back to the hot team and to the users in the team just because of Serpe? In general, your thoughts of the locker rooms make sense, but I'm still going to say that too much value is put on them. I would also like to say that there is no way users like Slash are going to stop anybody from being active, too much time spent focusing on what if's instead of making or at least trying to make hockey moves happen.
like it or not, most of us here are in the SHL to belong to a community (exhibit A: how much people care about whats going on in this thread). Having an attitude or opinions that people perceive as negative is actually locker room cancer. It's true in the NHL, it's true in the SHL, it's true at work, it's true at school, it's true in your home: No one wants to spend time with people they dislike.
09-23-2020, 03:34 PMjRuutu Wrote: Not enough room is one thing, but another issue is how more and more managers run their teams to be book clubs for the elderly: 'tea and biscuits on the counter, let's take turns on discussing this weeks book, but please watch the language - Marylyn said a bad word last week and we do not want to have that discussion again.'
What happened to wanting to win championships and to the rivalries? Is there no value in signing a quality player for free IF there is room and then potentially looking into trading that player for an asset at the deadline?
Way too much value is put to locker rooms in this league especially, great if people get along and share similar interests, but lets be 100% honest, there are better forums for discussions than whatever SHL can offer.
There are too many wannabe chatroom moderators working as general managers who love nothing more than having 15 users agreeing with each other in a locker room. How about you get rid of those inactives in your team and do some actual general managing for once? Lazy, lazy, lazy.
You can talk about the caps and whatever contract limits, but I think the HO should start hiring some hockey minds into these management positions.
Locker Rooms are very important. I have been on some BAD Texas teams with Kubinec but the locker room made the experience so much better and made me want to stay active. That experience is everything.
And if you think they're run like book clubs, you probably aren't in too many.
Sure, I'm not saying they have no value, it just feels like good locker room person has a lot more value than anything that happens in the sim/the type of player someone builds.
09-23-2020, 03:35 PMgrok Wrote: Look man I can put this in a nicer way because I don't actually know you, I just know the front you put up. But when your entire persona is being a trash talker to everyone, you will get that reputation. And when you carry that persona into talking shit on rookies who have no idea who you are and doing things in the league that get you in trouble, that reputation will snowball. Joe in this very thread said that part of the decision was because it's hard to get FAs to NOLA because of your reputation.
And it would be so easy to just own that the heckling hasn't always been in good fun and try to make inroads with the people who don't like you. But instead your response here was "woe is me, me me me." No acknowledgement of anything in your public attitude, just claiming you paid your dues and somehow deserve respect.
I'm sure I'm not the only person in SHL who would be willing to give you a second chance if you ever showed even a single public moment of apology, a sign that you've changed or that you're different in the LR and that the heckling is all in fun. But I have never seen that from you.
I know you'll probably look at this and either copypasta it with your friends or say "lol ok" but I've seen how your friends here stick up for you, and I wish the person they know was the person the site knows. I think the person they talk about would have gotten signed the day FA opened.
I'm not really in a good headspace to come up with a proper response to this but the SHL as a whole is full of cliques. It's a result of the team atmosphere mixed with the anonymity of the internet, people are gonna shit talk. People don't like WBF for a similar decorum to mine, but would people be happy to see him waste away in FA after all his hard work? If I have personally irked you I'm sorry, but to paint me as some LR demon that no one wants to be near is just detracting from the actual conversation of cap, roster size, and position changing.
And don't think I don't understand that I've been unpleasant to some people here. I know. But many GMs here have said they know me more personally than the site goes and would give me a shot if my price didn't shoot up to 6 mil. I'm sorry you don't see pity in my situation but if you're coming in here and shitting on me for your perceived slight, are you any better than I?
took me a bit to think about how to reply to this.
first off, i'll straight up own and apologize being a shithead earlier. i know that it's a shitty feeling to have nowhere to go during the top of your game and that your player is important to you (and an investment of your time!) and it was fucked up of me to just roll in and be a cock about the whole thing. i'm sorry my immediate response was destructive instead of constructive.
second, i definitely get that there's a subculture of assholery around here that certain people participate in more than others. finn absolutely participates in it, and you two are far from the only ones. that said i 100% would act exactly this way to finn. if finn was sitting in FA completely of his own design i'd probably be having the same conversation with him as i am with you. in fact, i have had exactly that conversation with finn regarding his applications to SMJHL HO. i've specifically talked to him about how his antagonistic attitude towards the people making the HO hiring decisions will hurt his chances whether he has the best application or not. i've specifically yelled at him because he always applies without changing his attitude then has the same woe is me schtick when he doesn't get selected. big picture, the whole constant trashtalking, my way or the highway, big man attitude is something i think is actively bad for this community and something i've worked with individuals on breaking down and changing. so i promise you that my last message wasn't intended to say "hey here's the way you suck," it was meant to deconstruct the specific parts of that subculture that i've seen you participate in. i know you aren't alone, and i know i would think about other people in this situation the same way.
third, i'm not trying to paint you as an LR demon, i'm trying to tell you how i perceive your image around the league. i'm just a dude and you can ignore me if you want, but i'm not the one in this thread calling you an FA repellent--your own prior GM is. if i was in a bubble and you were in FA, and you told me you wanted to come to my team, i'd absolutely talk it out and give you a second chance. i'm sure i'm not alone here, and i'm sure some of the people who share my opinion are other GMs with the cap space to take a real look who you haven't spoken to. but part of that conversation would be the humility and awareness to talk about the hard stuff.
fourth, yeah the cap situation is shitty. i've been doomsaying for months that there will be a cap crisis by S58 preseason. it sucks that it's happening to you and it'll suck again next season when it impacts even more players. imo i think it sucks that you're the only one stuck in it because it's 100% going to blow up on a bunch of actives over the next two seasons.
finally, i don't think it's possible to have the cap/roster construction conversation without also having a image conversation. i know some GMs will move mountains to sign The Guy for their locker room. i've been in those war rooms and had those discussions. the cap and the number of active goalies in the league mean that your LR presence will matter to many GMs when they're deciding how to spend their increasingly limited cap. sure the cap matters, but i think it's shortsighted to pretend it's the only reason you're in FA right now.
i don't think there's much more for me to say than this so i'll bow out from here, but my DMs are open if you ever wanna really talk about anything. i know you probably won't take me up on it but i'm there if you need an outside opinion.
09-23-2020, 04:19 PMCitizen of Adraa Wrote: The thing is FAs tend to have a choice - an LR that's great all around, or a good LR but with Serpe and Slash. Which one do you think gets the edge? It doesn't even have to be that objectively bad, but it's simply worse than other LRs, and that means that FAs are going to not choose it.
09-23-2020, 03:54 PMSlashACM Wrote: I'm not really in a good headspace to come up with a proper response to this but the SHL as a whole is full of cliques. It's a result of the team atmosphere mixed with the anonymity of the internet, people are gonna shit talk. People don't like WBF for a similar decorum to mine, but would people be happy to see him waste away in FA after all his hard work? If I have personally irked you I'm sorry, but to paint me as some LR demon that no one wants to be near is just detracting from the actual conversation of cap, roster size, and position changing.
And don't think I don't understand that I've been unpleasant to some people here. I know. But many GMs here have said they know me more personally than the site goes and would give me a shot if my price didn't shoot up to 6 mil. I'm sorry you don't see pity in my situation but if you're coming in here and shitting on me for your perceived slight, are you any better than I?
took me a bit to think about how to reply to this.
first off, i'll straight up own and apologize being a shithead earlier. i know that it's a shitty feeling to have nowhere to go during the top of your game and that your player is important to you (and an investment of your time!) and it was fucked up of me to just roll in and be a cock about the whole thing. i'm sorry my immediate response was destructive instead of constructive.
second, i definitely get that there's a subculture of assholery around here that certain people participate in more than others. finn absolutely participates in it, and you two are far from the only ones. that said i 100% would act exactly this way to finn. if finn was sitting in FA completely of his own design i'd probably be having the same conversation with him as i am with you. in fact, i have had exactly that conversation with finn regarding his applications to SMJHL HO. i've specifically talked to him about how his antagonistic attitude towards the people making the HO hiring decisions will hurt his chances whether he has the best application or not. i've specifically yelled at him because he always applies without changing his attitude then has the same woe is me schtick when he doesn't get selected. big picture, the whole constant trashtalking, my way or the highway, big man attitude is something i think is actively bad for this community and something i've worked with individuals on breaking down and changing. so i promise you that my last message wasn't intended to say "hey here's the way you suck," it was meant to deconstruct the specific parts of that subculture that i've seen you participate in. i know you aren't alone, and i know i would think about other people in this situation the same way.
third, i'm not trying to paint you as an LR demon, i'm trying to tell you how i perceive your image around the league. i'm just a dude and you can ignore me if you want, but i'm not the one in this thread calling you an FA repellent--your own prior GM is. if i was in a bubble and you were in FA, and you told me you wanted to come to my team, i'd absolutely talk it out and give you a second chance. i'm sure i'm not alone here, and i'm sure some of the people who share my opinion are other GMs with the cap space to take a real look who you haven't spoken to. but part of that conversation would be the humility and awareness to talk about the hard stuff.
fourth, yeah the cap situation is shitty. i've been doomsaying for months that there will be a cap crisis by S58 preseason. it sucks that it's happening to you and it'll suck again next season when it impacts even more players. imo i think it sucks that you're the only one stuck in it because it's 100% going to blow up on a bunch of actives over the next two seasons.
finally, i don't think it's possible to have the cap/roster construction conversation without also having a image conversation. i know some GMs will move mountains to sign The Guy for their locker room. i've been in those war rooms and had those discussions. the cap and the number of active goalies in the league mean that your LR presence will matter to many GMs when they're deciding how to spend their increasingly limited cap. sure the cap matters, but i think it's shortsighted to pretend it's the only reason you're in FA right now.
i don't think there's much more for me to say than this so i'll bow out from here, but my DMs are open if you ever wanna really talk about anything. i know you probably won't take me up on it but i'm there if you need an outside opinion.
I appreciate the response and do think we're on agreement about this
09-23-2020, 04:29 PM(This post was last modified: 09-23-2020, 04:30 PM by Leoben.)
09-23-2020, 04:26 PMjRuutu Wrote:
09-23-2020, 04:21 PMLeoben Wrote: Locker Rooms are very important. I have been on some BAD Texas teams with Kubinec but the locker room made the experience so much better and made me want to stay active. That experience is everything.
And if you think they're run like book clubs, you probably aren't in too many.
Sure, I'm not saying they have no value, it just feels like good locker room person has a lot more value than anything that happens in the sim/the type of player someone builds.
Not going to get too much into this debate but say you have a great player but you're a shit person (I'm not saying you are, just an example). So you come in a LR and piss off a lot of people, spouting racism/homophobia/just a general ass. You could run players off the team or site if you're not dealt with. So I'd argue being a shit person DOES impact team performance overall.
09-23-2020, 04:26 PMjRuutu Wrote: Sure, I'm not saying they have no value, it just feels like good locker room person has a lot more value than anything that happens in the sim/the type of player someone builds.
Not going to get too much into this debate but say you have a great player but you're a shit person (I'm not saying you are, just an example). So you come in a LR and piss off a lot of people, spouting racism/homophobia/just a general ass. You could run players off the team or site if you're not dealt with. So I'd argue being a shit person DOES impact team performance overall.
Right. And on the flip side, a good human being who makes people more involved in the LR also makes those people want to work harder to improve.
It's weird, because it's another one of those things where real-life and sim-life don't match up. Wayne Gretzky isn't gonna show up at our doorstep and show us the secret to being good at actual hockey. But to get good at fake hockey, you just have to ... do the things™. If you like the people you do the things™ with, you're more likely to do them, and the rising tide lifts all the boats. Except for the Anchorage boats. F them in particular. Go Quebec.
09-23-2020, 04:29 PMLeoben Wrote: Not going to get too much into this debate but say you have a great player but you're a shit person (I'm not saying you are, just an example). So you come in a LR and piss off a lot of people, spouting racism/homophobia/just a general ass. You could run players off the team or site if you're not dealt with. So I'd argue being a shit person DOES impact team performance overall.
Right. And on the flip side, a good human being who makes people more involved in the LR also makes those people want to work harder to improve.
It's weird, because it's another one of those things where real-life and sim-life don't match up. Wayne Gretzky isn't gonna show up at our doorstep and show us the secret to being good at actual hockey. But to get good at fake hockey, you just have to ... do the things™. If you like the people you do the things™ with, you're more likely to do them, and the rising tide lifts all the boats. Except for the Anchorage boats. F them in particular. Go Quebec.
wtf
go anchorage boats
ty to @High Stick King @EvilAllBran and @Ragnar for the sigs
09-23-2020, 04:13 PMjRuutu Wrote: And what comes down to locker rooms, I have hard time believing Serpe alone is enough to turn free agents away, the hot team with a lot of ´SHL famous´ users is cool with Serpe in the room but Free agents turn their back to the hot team and to the users in the team just because of Serpe? In general, your thoughts of the locker rooms make sense, but I'm still going to say that too much value is put on them. I would also like to say that there is no way users like Slash are going to stop anybody from being active, too much time spent focusing on what if's instead of making or at least trying to make hockey moves happen.
like it or not, most of us here are in the SHL to belong to a community (exhibit A: how much people care about whats going on in this thread). Having an attitude or opinions that people perceive as negative is actually locker room cancer. It's true in the NHL, it's true in the SHL, it's true at work, it's true at school, it's true in your home: No one wants to spend time with people they dislike.
And still that locker room cancer could be a valuable player on the ice? Not everybody is going to be locker room active or someone who spends as much time in there as some others. It's the same I don't know 8 people who chat in there and everybody else just sits on the side and pop in once in a while. The general managers do not give a shit what the users who sit on the side think, they go to the locker room sweethearts and ask their opinion, so when labels like locker room cancer is thrown around, it's actually the opinion of a small group.
09-23-2020, 04:24 PMPremierBromanov Wrote: like it or not, most of us here are in the SHL to belong to a community (exhibit A: how much people care about whats going on in this thread). Having an attitude or opinions that people perceive as negative is actually locker room cancer. It's true in the NHL, it's true in the SHL, it's true at work, it's true at school, it's true in your home: No one wants to spend time with people they dislike.
And still that locker room cancer could be a valuable player on the ice?
compared to anyone else? not really. The margins are thin regarding how good players are relative to their TPE, and as others have mentioned having locker room cancer can be a detriment long term. So sure, maybe you can add talent at the deadline for playoffs. But that's still chipping away at the community inside your LR that you worked so hard to build. In terms of drafting, its pretty easy to avoid toxic players, pretty easy to avoid toxic LRs as a free agent too.
09-23-2020, 04:26 PMjRuutu Wrote: Sure, I'm not saying they have no value, it just feels like good locker room person has a lot more value than anything that happens in the sim/the type of player someone builds.
Not going to get too much into this debate but say you have a great player but you're a shit person (I'm not saying you are, just an example). So you come in a LR and piss off a lot of people, spouting racism/homophobia/just a general ass. You could run players off the team or site if you're not dealt with. So I'd argue being a shit person DOES impact team performance overall.
Sure, I get that, but still I must say that from all the time I have spent in these leagues - I have never seen that. In private/team locker rooms, someone walks in a goes off completely, could happen but extremely rarely. Certainly not as often as we hear about these stories on how some users can't play in there or here because of locker room related question marks.
09-23-2020, 04:42 PM(This post was last modified: 09-23-2020, 04:42 PM by .bojo.)
09-23-2020, 04:34 PMztevans Wrote: Right. And on the flip side, a good human being who makes people more involved in the LR also makes those people want to work harder to improve.
It's weird, because it's another one of those things where real-life and sim-life don't match up. Wayne Gretzky isn't gonna show up at our doorstep and show us the secret to being good at actual hockey. But to get good at fake hockey, you just have to ... do the things™. If you like the people you do the things™ with, you're more likely to do them, and the rising tide lifts all the boats. Except for the Anchorage boats. F them in particular. Go Quebec.
gretzky came to my house and sang "don't go chasing hockey goals, please stick to computers and the programs you're used to"
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