You technically don't give a shit about the file. As a matter of fact, the file is freely available.

The thing you need to sim through a game is the commish password. I don't think you can play the SHL save without it, but the moment you get it, you are just straight back at test simming.

Edit: wait I am an idiot I actually can't read. We can't even play FHM 8? I didn't notice that in the rule

We can play FHM 8.

We can't modify anything to explore FHM 8.

i feel like you don't understand all of the work that would require

Cal Juice
Tomas Zadina
Brady McIntyre

Nice read, I think it's important for these points to be heard so that we can get a complete picture and look at this issue from all sides. However, I still largely disagree and think that the benefits of the new rules largely outweigh the risks. Sure, there probably are loopholes in there already and there will be unforeseen circumstances, but the arms race that is test simming has become such a bane on the health of this league and the enjoyment of it's users, that it's still worth it to take these drastic measures despite the possible drawbacks.

To get into some of your points in more details:

The ban is virtually unenforceable

That's true but that's why the penalty for it is so harsh. Yes, you are unlikely to get caught, but if you are you are absolutely fucked. It's the best detriment we have unfortunately aside from appealing to peoples moral instincts, which maybe isn't as naive as it sounds. Because...

People are almost certainly going to do it anyway

... over the last few months we've heard even from the people who have been doing a lot of test simming that they don't really enjoy it and only did it because they felt they had to in order to give their team a chance to keep up in that neverending arms race. It sounds like such an unhealthy cycle where people don't actually want to do bad things but feel forced to do them in order to not fall behind, and maybe that's our chance now to break that cycle.

That's the naive, optimistic view, that people stop test simming if we take away that feeling of being forced to do it in order to not let their team down. The colder, more cynical view is that I'd probably still prefer an SHL where a handful of hypercompetitive assholes do test simming in secreat over an SHL where everyone is forced to test sim no matter if they want to or not and the lack of player agency that creates, because the entire league has just become a GM dick measuring contest where the ones that can sink the most time into the game have a huge advantage and the players who aren't GMs don't really have an impact at all.

And lastly, I don't mind people being snitched on here. If you notice someone doing something that is that harmful to the community as a whole for super selfish reasons, by all means snitch on them, they deserve it. What is noble about protecting someone who does such shitty things? It's a shitty view that you can only have if you've watched too many shitty gangster movies?

It's not snitching, it's whistleblowing in my book.

And it's gonna be a crucial part of our toolbox to enforce these rules, the risk of being told on, the risk of someone blowing the whistle. Sure if your teammates find out that you are test-simming they might not tell on you because well, they are your teammates, you are in this together. But who knows, a few seasons down the line some of these people might not be your teammates anymore... Maybe you've even had a falling out with one of them? Will they still keep their mouths shut and protect you then? How sure are you of that? We want the illegal test simmers to ask themselves these very questions, to have a target on their back, to not be able to every quite be at ease. We want to make this kind of cheating such a miserable experience that it just isn't worth it anymore.

There will be witch hunts

I think the opposite is true actually. We already are in a situation where some teams are seen with so much suspicion that no matter if they actually do something bad or not, every good/surprising result from them leads to accusations and basically witch hunts because everyone assumes test-simming shenanigans at play. We would likely get much less of these witch hunts with test-simming banned for everyone, not more.

Decompiling isn’t explicitly banned

That part of your post is just depressing. I'd hate it so much if that is the approach that people want to take to this game nowadays, I just hope we can be better than that. But either way, "if we can't ban decompiling then why ban test simming" isn't a very strong argument imho.

So much TPE could be unwittingly wasted

That's actually a good thing in my eyes. Make builds matter again, make it so that people build different kinds of players, some of which work better than others. The choices we make in regards to our players only have meaning when they actually have consequences, including the possibility of failure. That's much more rewarding than everyone grinding their way towards 2000 TPE and building more or less the same way, wait their turn to be a Superstar for a few seasons using the same mold that everyone before them had been using as well. Having too much information and too much of a meta makes the player building experience worse, not matter.

Strats are just guesswork now

That's a legitimate concern that I'll concede, but for other reasons than the ones you've mentioned. I see the risk here more in the fact that there clearly is a knowledge gap between teams/GMs at this point even without test simming, and it will be harder for the inexperienced GMs to catch up without test simming as one of their tools. That's why we need publicly available resources and essentially databases where people share their sim knowledge that are available to everyone, and I think it's fair to doubt that we'll get that anytime soon.

What I strongly disagree with is your point of "The role of GM has been reduced, and I think this is a shame."

Hell no! If there's one thing the SHL needs then it's to reduce the role and importance of the GMs, to give more agency back to the players so that their decisions matter again and they aren't just pawns in a GM chess game. This league is a player league first and foremost, of course GMs should still be important but they shouldn't be the sole factor that decides a teams success as they are now.

RNG and guesswork will have more impact than ever

I usually don't like RNG in video games but in a sports sim like the SHL, it is crucial to have a good amount of it. If the last decade and a half of SHL hockey have shown us anything, its that there hasn't been enough randomness. Things are too predictable. Every season has been pretty much pre-determined, teams more or less knew going into the year where they'd finish in the Standings with almost no surprises, upsets, cinderella runs, chokes etc... The below-average teams knew that they'd have no chance right from the start, making things boring for everyone on those squads, and for the good teams everything before the playoffs was largely meaningless as well because they were guaranteed to make the postseason from the start. Nothing really happened in the regular season aside from individual stat counting. And even in the playoffs, where the fact that you only need a few lucky breaks to beat a much stronger opponent in a series should create a lot more excitement, those upsets rarely ever happened. And when they did, they tended to came from the (alleged) test-simming giants. It's just a broken system that actually needs more randomness and unpredictability.

Some of us enjoy sim testing

Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

Sorry to sound harsh, I don't mean to get personal after the very constructive and interesting post you made, but if your main reason for being in a league like this is that you enjoy breaking games and engines and want to do this here as well, then you can fuck off. We don't want that here, the league is better off without that kind of mindset. Maybe it's too late already because pandoras box has already been opened, but I hope that with enough effort we can still contain this kind of mindset and channel it into areas where it doesn't ruin the fun for everyone.

Anyone can sim test FHM (when it’s not banned)

I think I touched on all that in my previous points. It's just not true in my opinion that the fact that everyone could theoretically test sim created are more level playing field. Some people are just way more hardcore about this, have more knowledge, more time or more interest, and that shouldn't be the sole deciding factor that determines a teams success, while the players who the league is supposed to be all about are just passengers that are expected to grind away to 2000 TPE to provide their GMs with the tools they need in their personal battle royale, but who can contribute little beyond that.

Evan Winter
Edmonton Blizzard
Player Page - Update Page

Nice read, I think it's important for these points to be heard so that we can get a complete picture and look at this issue from all sides. However, I still largely disagree and think that the benefits of the new rules largely outweigh the risks. Sure, there probably are loopholes in there already and there will be unforeseen circumstances, but the arms race that is test simming has become such a bane on the health of this league and the enjoyment of it's users, that it's still worth it to take these drastic measures despite the possible drawbacks.

To get into some of your points in more details:

The ban is virtually unenforceable

That's true but that's why the penalty for it is so harsh. Yes, you are unlikely to get caught, but if you are you are absolutely fucked. It's the best detriment we have unfortunately aside from appealing to peoples moral instincts, which maybe isn't as naive as it sounds. Because...

People are almost certainly going to do it anyway

... over the last few months we've heard even from the people who have been doing a lot of test simming that they don't really enjoy it and only did it because they felt they had to in order to give their team a chance to keep up in that neverending arms race. It sounds like such an unhealthy cycle where people don't actually want to do bad things but feel forced to do them in order to not fall behind, and maybe that's our chance now to break that cycle.

That's the naive, optimistic view, that people stop test simming if we take away that feeling of being forced to do it in order to not let their team down. The colder, more cynical view is that I'd probably still prefer an SHL where a handful of hypercompetitive assholes do test simming in secreat over an SHL where everyone is forced to test sim no matter if they want to or not and the lack of player agency that creates, because the entire league has just become a GM dick measuring contest where the ones that can sink the most time into the game have a huge advantage and the players who aren't GMs don't really have an impact at all.

And lastly, I don't mind people being snitched on here. If you notice someone doing something that is that harmful to the community as a whole for super selfish reasons, by all means snitch on them, they deserve it. What is noble about protecting someone who does such shitty things? It's a shitty view that you can only have if you've watched too many shitty gangster movies?

It's not snitching, it's whistleblowing in my book.

And it's gonna be a crucial part of our toolbox to enforce these rules, the risk of being told on, the risk of someone blowing the whistle. Sure if your teammates find out that you are test-simming they might not tell on you because well, they are your teammates, you are in this together. But who knows, a few seasons down the line some of these people might not be your teammates anymore... Maybe you've even had a falling out with one of them? Will they still keep their mouths shut and protect you then? How sure are you of that? We want the illegal test simmers to ask themselves these very questions, to have a target on their back, to not be able to every quite be at ease. We want to make this kind of cheating such a miserable experience that it just isn't worth it anymore.

There will be witch hunts

I think the opposite is true actually. We already are in a situation where some teams are seen with so much suspicion that no matter if they actually do something bad or not, every good/surprising result from them leads to accusations and basically witch hunts because everyone assumes test-simming shenanigans at play. We would likely get much less of these witch hunts with test-simming banned for everyone, not more.

Decompiling isn’t explicitly banned

That part of your post is just depressing. I'd hate it so much if that is the approach that people want to take to this game nowadays, I just hope we can be better than that. But either way, "if we can't ban decompiling then why ban test simming" isn't a very strong argument imho.

So much TPE could be unwittingly wasted

That's actually a good thing in my eyes. Make builds matter again, make it so that people build different kinds of players, some of which work better than others. The choices we make in regards to our players only have meaning when they actually have consequences, including the possibility of failure. That's much more rewarding than everyone grinding their way towards 2000 TPE and building more or less the same way, wait their turn to be a Superstar for a few seasons using the same mold that everyone before them had been using as well. Having too much information and too much of a meta makes the player building experience worse, not matter.

Strats are just guesswork now

That's a legitimate concern that I'll concede, but for other reasons than the ones you've mentioned. I see the risk here more in the fact that there clearly is a knowledge gap between teams/GMs at this point even without test simming, and it will be harder for the inexperienced GMs to catch up without test simming as one of their tools. That's why we need publicly available resources and essentially databases where people share their sim knowledge that are available to everyone, and I think it's fair to doubt that we'll get that anytime soon.

What I strongly disagree with is your point of "The role of GM has been reduced, and I think this is a shame."

Hell no! If there's one thing the SHL needs then it's to reduce the role and importance of the GMs, to give more agency back to the players so that their decisions matter again and they aren't just pawns in a GM chess game. This league is a player league first and foremost, of course GMs should still be important but they shouldn't be the sole factor that decides a teams success as they are now.

RNG and guesswork will have more impact than ever

I usually don't like RNG in video games but in a sports sim like the SHL, it is crucial to have a good amount of it. If the last decade and a half of SHL hockey have shown us anything, its that there hasn't been enough randomness. Things are too predictable. Every season has been pretty much pre-determined, teams more or less knew going into the year where they'd finish in the Standings with almost no surprises, upsets, cinderella runs, chokes etc... The below-average teams knew that they'd have no chance right from the start, making things boring for everyone on those squads, and for the good teams everything before the playoffs was largely meaningless as well because they were guaranteed to make the postseason from the start. Nothing really happened in the regular season aside from individual stat counting. And even in the playoffs, where the fact that you only need a few lucky breaks to beat a much stronger opponent in a series should create a lot more excitement, those upsets rarely ever happened. And when they did, they tended to came from the (alleged) test-simming giants. It's just a broken system that actually needs more randomness and unpredictability.

Some of us enjoy sim testing

Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

Sorry to sound harsh, I don't mean to get personal after the very constructive and interesting post you made, but if your main reason for being in a league like this is that you enjoy breaking games and engines and want to do this here as well, then you can fuck off. We don't want that here, the league is better off without that kind of mindset. Maybe it's too late already because pandoras box has already been opened, but I hope that with enough effort we can still contain this kind of mindset and channel it into areas where it doesn't ruin the fun for everyone.

Anyone can sim test FHM (when it’s not banned)

I think I touched on all that in my previous points. It's just not true in my opinion that the fact that everyone could theoretically test sim created are more level playing field. Some people are just way more hardcore about this, have more knowledge, more time or more interest, and that shouldn't be the sole deciding factor that determines a teams success, while the players who the league is supposed to be all about are just passengers that are expected to grind away to 2000 TPE to provide their GMs with the tools they need in their personal battle royale, but who can contribute little beyond that.

As usual, I think RED nails it. But, I just want to especially repeat:

Sure, there probably are loopholes in there already and there will be unforeseen circumstances, but the arms race that is test simming has become such a bane on the health of this league and the enjoyment of it's users, that it's still worth it to take these drastic measures despite the possible drawbacks.

                    John Brown | RD | TBB
570 TPE, 6'3, 204 lbs.
S67 - Drafted 1OA by the Nevada Battleborn
S68 - SMJHL All-Star
S68 - Drafted 6OA by the Tampa Bay Barracuda
S69 - SMJHL All-Star
S69 - SMJHL All Defense Team
S69 - Alexis Metzler Award
S70 - SMJHL All-Star

S66 Damian Littleton

      Joseph Weston || Winger || Los Angeles Panthers        
Joseph Weston || Winger || Los Angeles Panthers        
                                  1885 Peak TPE, 6'1", 202 Lbs.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Regular Season Stats:
S49 | MTL | GP: 50 | G: 08 | A: 03 | P: 11 | +/-: 03 | MP: 621
S50 | CAR | GP: 50 | G: 17 | A: 22 | P: 39 | +/-: 02 | MP: 766
S51 | CAR | GP: 50 | G: 20 | A: 28 | P: 48 | +/-: 25 | MP: 807
S52 | CAR | GP: 50 | G: 19 | A: 20 | P: 39 | +/-: 08 | MP: 957
S53 | CGY | GP: 50 | G: 10 | A: 19 | P: 29 | +/-: 11 | TOI: 17:06
S54 | CGY | GP: 50 | G: 06 | A: 14 | P: 20 | +/-: -6 | TOI: 17:17
S55 | CGY | GP: 50 | G: 12 | A: 17 | P: 29 | +/-: 15 | TOI: 16:57
S56 | CGY | GP: 50 | G: 17 | A: 29 | P: 46 | +/-: 44 | TOI: 18:33
S57 | CGY | GP: 66 | G: 28 | A: 27 | P: 55 | +/-: 33 | TOI: 18:57
S58 | CGY | GP: 66 | G: 28 | A: 28 | P: 56 | +/-: 31 | TOI: 20:19
S59 | CGY | GP: 66 | G: 31 | A: 42 | P: 73 | +/-: 31 | TOI: 22:15
S60 | CGY | GP: 66 | G: 28 | A: 31 | P: 59 | +/-: 27 | TOI: 22:09
S61 | CGY | GP: 66 | G: 36 | A: 35 | P: 71 | +/-: 13 | TOI: 21:45
S62 | CGY | GP: 66 | G: 25 | A: 44 | P: 69 | +/-: 12 | TOI: 21:19
S63 | TOR | GP: 66 | G: 11 | A: 27 | P: 38 | +/-: -15 | TOI: 19:40
S64 | LAP  | GP: 66 | G: 18 | A: 28 | P: 46 | +/-: 19 | TOI: 18:11
S65 | LAP  | GP: 66 | G: 14 | A: 24 | P: 38 | +/-: 21 | TOI: 17:53
S66 | LAP | GP: TBD | G: TBD | A: TBD | P: TBD | +/-: TBD | TOI: TBD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Awards:
S49 Montreal Militia Four Star Cup Champions
S50 Carolina Kraken Four Star Cup Champions
S50 Zach Miller Trophy Nomination
S50 Vyacheslav Onoprienko Trophy
S50 WJC USA Bronze Medal
S50 & S51 Carolina Kraken Assistant Captain
S51 SMJHL All-Star
S51 Laurifer Trophy
S52 Carolina Kraken Captain
S52 WJC USA Captain
S53 SHL All-Rookie Team
S54 Calgary Dragons Assistant Captain
S56-S58 Calgary Dragons Assistant Captain
S59-S63 Calgary Dragons Captain
S59 SHL All-Star Game
S60 SHL All-Star Game
S61 SHL All-Star Game
S63 United States of America IIHF Gold Medal
S63 SHL All-Star Game
S65 Challenge Cup Champion


|| ||
| |

Nice read, I think it's important for these points to be heard...

Now this is a response. Thank you.

Obviously some of this will come down to opinion on what is healthy for the league, which I completely respect. But I will take you up on a few of your points.

Code:

We already are in a situation where some teams are seen with so much suspicion that no matter if they actually do something bad or not, every good/surprising result from them leads to accusations and basically witch hunts because everyone assumes test-simming shenanigans at play. We would likely get much less of these witch hunts with test-simming banned for everyone, not more.

The concept of a witch hunt is a baying mob demanding severe justice based on unprovable accusations. Teams that are known for sim testing being accused of sim testing in a league that allows sim testing isn't a witch hunt. It's a few snarky comments based on sound logic. I believe this ban has the potential to result in actual witch hunts, with real potential punishments.... if results fall a certain way.

The choices we make in regards to our players only have meaning when they actually have consequences

to give more agency back to the players so that their decisions matter again

You talk about players making "choices" and "decisions". Both words imply a level of knowledge surrounding the decision at hand, and a lack of sim knowledge in the community means that just isn't possible here. These are now guesses, or arbitrary decisions - is handing agency to the players to make consequential guesses really a satisfying user experience?

the arms race that is test simming has become such a bane on the health of this league

Right, and this is where I think you have strayed from the point I was making slightly. I have done the sim testing grind (mostly in other leagues) and I am fine with it going. Take away the capability for us to sim through the league file, and ideally take away any possibility of us being able to recreate a league file. That can all go, along with any culture of obligatory test simming in the name of optimisation.

But without the capability to explore the sim engine even slightly (without any league file - or recreation thereof - involved) we are in a position where anyone who offers any build advice to others who request it are under immediate suspicion. Every keen rookie who wants to earn, get involved more, and try to make a player who succeeds in the league has to be met with "idk, just guess" when asking for advice. I don't think that will be healthy for the league in the long term.

it seems like you're saying in comments is that the language of the rules isn't quite right, but what you've written about is a broader argument for the concept of simming the way we used to.

[S69] Tiberius Kane | Left Wing | GFG | 473 TPE
S67: WJC Silver
S68: Drafted 3rd Overall to GFG
S68: Drafted 14th Overall to TEX
S69: WJC Bronze


[S67] Nichael Fitted + [S64] Backup Goaltender


[S50] Tom Fiddler | Two-Way Center | Peak 2006 TPE | RETIRED

Drafted 4th round, 34th overall in S49 SMJHL Entry Draft
Drafted 2nd round, 24th overall in S50 SHL Entry Draft
Traded to Tampa Bay for a ham sandwich in S52

* = First Place

 Career Stats    |  GP |  G  |  A  | P    | +/-  |  Hit  |  SB  |    Sh  |  GA |  TK
 SHL  Regular    | 657 | 144 | 284 | 428 | -213 | 777 | 1013 | 1520 | 292 | 393
 SHL Playoffs    |  39    | 5   |  14 |  19  | -16  | 63  |    52  |          |        |       
 IIHF Regular    | 168 | 19  |  45  |  64 |  7   | 153 |    90  |          |        |       



SHL Regular Season Stats
Szn  |Team| GP | G |  A  | P    |  +/-  |  TOI | Hit | SB | Sh | PIM
S53 | TBB |  50 | 5  | 15 | 20| -24| 17:16  |  46 | 77 | 56 | 10
S54 | TBB |  45 | 1  | 10 | 11 | -80 | 18:35 |  60 | 171  | 55 | 17
S55 | TBB |  50 | 1  | 19 | 20 | -56 | 18:37 |  31 | 86    | 82 | 14
S56 | TBB |  50 | 5  | 15 | 20 | -35 | 19:22 |  34 | 112 | 101| 20
S57 | TBB |  66 | 14 | 32 | 46 | -26 | 24:48 | 64 |100  |152 | 20
S58 | TBB |  66 | 29 | 40 | 69 | -2  | 25:59  |100| 74 |180 | 20
S59 | TBB |  66 | 19 | 39 | 58 | -3  | 25:33  |105| 95 |188 | 14
S60 | TBB |  66 | 23 | 23 | 46 | 4  | 22:33  | 66  | 50  |159 | 26
S61 | TBB |  66 | 10 | 35 | 45 | 12 | 22:17  | 98  | 72  |182 | 20
S62 | TBB |  66 | 16 | 23 | 39 | -2  | 20:23  |104 | 57  |183 | 4
S63 | TOR | 66 | 21 | 33 | 54 | -1  |  20:29  | 69  |119  |182 | 39



SHL Playoff Stats
Szn  |Team| GP | G |  A  | P  |  +/- |  TOI  | Hit | SB | Sh | PIM
S59 | TBB |  5    | 1 |  1 |  2  |  -6  | 22:11  | 10  |  5  | 12  |  0 
S60 | TBB |  4    | 0 |  0 |  0  |  -6  | 22:49  |  8  |  1 |  7   | 0 
S61 | TBB |  13  | 1 |  9 | 10  |  0  | 21:06  | 17  | 13 | 29  | 0 
S62 | TBB |  12  | 1 |  3 |  4  |  -4 | 20:01  | 20  | 18 | 24  | 2
S63 | TOR |  5    | 2 |  1 |  3  |  0  | 21:16  |  8  | 15 | 15  |0 


SMJHL Career | GP: 200| G: 36 | A: 102 | P: 138 | +/-: 42
SMJHL Playoff Career | GP: 52| G: 9 | A: 23 | P: 32 | +/-: 5

SMJHL Regular Season Stats
S49 | MTL | GP: 50 | G: 3 | A: 16 | P: 19 | +/-: 2 | FO%: 42.43% | FOT: 898
S50 | CAR | GP: 50 | G: 6 | A: 15 | P: 21 | +/-: -6 | FO%: 50.93% | FOT: 1237
S51*| CAR | GP: 50 | G: 11 | A: 38 | P: 49 | +/-: 24 | FO%: 53.08% | FOT: 1313
S52 | CAR | GP: 50 | G: 16 | A: 33 | P: 49 | +/-: 22 | FO%: 53.33% | FOT: 1202

SMJHL Playoff Stats
S49*| MTL | GP: 17 | G: 2 | A: 7 | P: 9 | +/-: 5 | FO%: 51.96% | FOT: 433
S50*| CAR | GP: 18 | G: 4 | A: 5 | P: 9 | +/-: 5 | FO%: 50.28% | FOT: 356
S51  | CAR | GP:  6 | G: 2 | A: 2 | P: 4 | +/-: -1| FO%: 47.68% | FOT: 151
S52  | CAR | GP:  11 | G: 1 | A: 9| P: 10 | +/-: -4| FO%: 51.34% | FOT: 261

Awards
S49 Four Star Cup
S50 Four Star Cup
S51 Laurifer Trophy
S51 Petr Klimek Award for the Best Two-Way Player with Joseph Weston
S52 Honorary 3-way Laurifer Paricipation Trophy
S52 Alternate Captain of Carolina
S52 Petr Klimek Award for the Best Two-Way Player with Joseph Weston
S52 Kurtis Hunter Award for Team's Choice MVP
S52 IIHF Gold Medal
S53 IIHF Bronze Medal
S54 The Winless Season
S54 IIHF Silver Medal
S55 IIHF Gold Medal
S56 IIHF Silver Medal
S57 IIHF Silver Medal
S58 IIHF Silver Medal
S60 IIHF Silver Medal
S61 IIHF GoldMedal


IIHF Federation Head - Great Britain
S56: Silver
S57: Silver
S58: Silver
S59: DNQ
S60: Silver
S61: Gold
S62: DNQ
S68: Lost 1st Round
S69: Bronze


Fuck the penaltys
ARGARGARHARG

Acap said I could test sim if I venmoed him $20

Sigs by Me, Merica, High Stick King, Rum_Ham, Jess, vulfzilla, enigmatic, and Carpy

 

Brian Morley | LAP | S30 Hall of Fame
———————————
CAREER AWARDS/ACCOMPLISHMENTS:
1x Challenge Cup (S17)
2x 1st All-Star Team (S22, S24)
1x 2nd All-Star Team (S23)
1x Sergei Karpotsov Trophy (S22)
2x Jay McDonald Trophy (S22, S24)
2x Damian Littleton Nominee (S21)
2x Ron Mexico Nominee (S22, S23)
2x Jeff Dar Nominee (S23, S24)
First, second and fifth most goals in a season in the 52 game era
Second most points in a season in the 52 game era
Second most goals by a player in Los Angeles Panthers franchise history
Second most points by a player in Los Angeles Panthers franchise history
Most goals, assists and points by a player drafted in S14
———————————
CAREER STATS:
758 GP:  265 Goals, 328 Assists, 593 Points

Chimkin Wing | Right Wing | Retired Beef Cake
Jersey Number: 35
Height: 6ft 8in
Weight: 225 lbs
Birthplace: Zrenjanin, Serbia
———————————
Signed as a free agent in S55 with the Anchorage Armada
Drafted 47th overall in the S56 SHL draft by the Buffalo Stampede
———————————
SMJHL REGULAR SEASON STATS:
S55: GP: 10 | W: 5 | L: 4 | OTL: 0 | GAA: 2.31 | SV%: .910 | SO: 1
S56: GP: 26 | W: 12 L: 8 | OTL: 3 | GAA: 2.59 | SV%: .893 | SO: 2
S57: GP: 53 | W: 33 L: 12 | OTL: 7 | GAA: 2.02 | SV%: .920 | SO: 8
S58: GP: 51 | W: 27 L: 22 | OTL: 2 | GAA: 2.11 | SV%: .927 | SO: 8
SMJHL PLAYOFF STATS:
S57: GP: 16 | W: 12 L: 3 | OTL: 1 | GAA: 1.86 | SV%: .926 | SO: 1
S58: GP: 21 | W: 13 L: 7 | OTL: 1 | GAA: 2.56 | SV%: .906 | SO: 0
———————————
SHL REGULAR SEASON STATS:
S58: GP: 3 | W: 2 | L: 0 | OTL: 1 | GAA: 1.95 | SV%: .880 | SO: 1
S59: GP: 66 | G: 8 | A: 26 | P: 34 | +/-: 38 | PIM: 16
S60: GP: 66 | G: 19 | A: 23 | P: 42 | +/-: 32 | PIM: 12
S61: GP: 66 | G: 11 | A: 31 | P: 42 | +/-: 36 | PIM: 38
S62: GP: 66 | G: 4 | A: 38 | P: 42 | +/-: 34 | PIM: 12
S63: GP: 66 | G: 6 | A: 28 | P: 34 | +/-: 7 | PIM: 19
S64: GP: 66 | G: 36 | A: 54 | P: 90 | +/-: 44 | PIM: 16
S65: GP: 66 | G: 44 | A: 41 | P: 85 | +/-: 18 | PIM: 18
S66: GP: 66 | G: 27 | A: 54 | P: 81 | +/-: 12 | PIM: 34
S67: GP: 66 | G: 20 | A: 55 | P: 75 | +/-: -10 | PIM: 44
S68: GP: 66 | G: 33 | A: 57 | P: 90 | +/-: 32 | PIM: 20
S69: GP: 66 | G: 32 | A: 59 | P: 91 | +/-: 31 | PIM: 34
S70: GP: 66 | G: 12 | A: 64 | P: 76 | +/-: 31 | PIM: 26
S71: GP: 66 | G: 23 | A: 38 | P: 61 | +/-: 22 | PIM: 26
S72: GP: 66 | G: 22 | A: 33 | P: 55 | +/-: 0 | PIM: 34
S73: GP: 66 | G: 17 | A: 39 | P: 56 | +/-: 21 | PIM: 20
S74: GP: 66 | G: 29 | A: 38 | P: 67 | +/-: 28 | PIM: 20
TOT: GP: 1056 | G: 343 | A: 678 | P: 1021 | +/-: 376 | PIM: 389
SHL PLAYOFF STATS:
S59: GP: 19 | G: 2 | A: 7 | P: 9 | +/-: -2 | PIM: 4
S60: GP: 22 | G: 6 | A: 15 | P: 21 | +/-: 12 | PIM: 4
S61: GP: 9 | G: 1 | A: 5 | P: 6 | +/-: 7 | PIM: 2
S62: GP: 9 | G: 2 | A: 3 | P: 5 | +/-: 3 | PIM: 2
S63: GP: 12 | G: 1 | A: 4 | P: 5 | +/-: 2 | PIM: 0
S64: GP: 11 | G: 4 | A: 8 | P: 12 | +/-: 2 | PIM: 2
S65: GP: 18 | G: 12 | A: 14 | P: 26 | +/-: 12 | PIM: 0
S66: GP: 16 | G: 4 | A: 9 | P: 13 | +/-: -2 | PIM: 2
S67: GP: 4 | G: 1 | A: 2 | P: 3 | +/-: -2 | PIM: 0
S68: GP: 17 | G: 10 | A: 17 | P: 27 | +/-: 6 | PIM: 10
S69: GP: 4 | G: 1 | A: 4 | P: 5 | +/-: -5 | PIM: 2
S70: GP: 7 | G: 2 | A: 1 | P: 3 | +/-: -2 | PIM: 2
S71: GP: 21 | G: 7 | A: 17 | P: 24 | +/-: 6 | PIM: 4
S72: GP: 5 | G: 0 | A: 1 | P: 1 | +/-: -4 | PIM: 0
S73: GP: 6 | G: 1 | A: 6 | P: 6 | +/-: 0 | PIM: 2
S74: GP: 9 | G: 0 | A: 2 | P: 2 | +/-: -3 | PIM: 4
TOT: GP: 189 | G: 54 | A: 114 | P: 168 | +/-: 34 | PIM: 40
———————————
AWARDS AND ACCOLADES:
S55 Matt Lewis-Flood Trophy
S57 Four Star Cup Champion
S57 SMJHL Second All Star Team
S57 Brodie Witzel Trophy - Playoffs MVP
S58 SMJHL First All Star Team
S58 Matt Lewis-Flood Trophy
S58 Cedric Robinson Trophy - Best Goalie
S60 Challenge Cup Champion
S64 Named Buffalo Stampede Captain
S64 Aidan Richan Award
S69 SHL All Star
S71 Challenge Cup Champion

Ongo Gablogian, the art collector | RD | Carolina Kraken
---------------------------------------------
Charmed, I'm sure
---------------------------------------------
Jersey Number: 0
Height: 4 ft 10in
Weight: 290 lbs
Birthplace: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
---------------------------------------------
Drafted 8th overall by the Carolina Kraken in S74
Drafted 39th overall by the Buffalo Stampede in S75
---------------------------------------------
REGULAR SEASON STATS
S74: GP: 66 | G: 3 | A: 22 | P: 25 | +/-: -16 | PIM: 32 | HITS: 109
S75: GP: 66 | G: 8 | A: 18 | P: 26 | +/-: -9 | PIM: 38 | HITS: 126
S76: GP: 66 | G: 6 | A: 25 | P: 31 | +/-: +52 | PIM: 26 | HITS: 112
S77: GP: 66 | G: 13 | A: 37 | P: 50 | +/-: -8 | PIM: 41 | HITS: 120
TOT: GP: 264 | G: 30 | A: 203 | P: 132 | +/-: +19 | PIM:13 | HITS: 112
---------------------------------------------
PLAYOFF STATS
S74: DNQ
S75: GP: 12 | G: 0 | A: 1 | P: 1 | +/-: -2 | PIM: 6 | HITS: 22
S76: GP: 20 | G: 0 | A: 11 | P: 11 | +/-: 0 | PIM: 14 | HITS: 43
S77: GP: 11 | G: 2 | A: 7 | P: 9 | +/-: -1 | PIM: 6 | HITS: 14
TOT: GP: 32 | G: 2 | A: 19 | P: 21 | +/-: -3 | PIM: 26  | HITS: 79
---------------------------------------------
AWARDS AND ACCOLADES
S76 Alex Metzler Award

❤!! RIP to the big homies 701 and Mac !!❤

The pure idea that you would want to decompile or identify what is/isn't the most profitable use of TPE or what is good/bad by definition is exactly the attitude that test sim banning was trying to remove. The whole spirit behind this post is the point of the ban in the first place.

Player Thread | Update Thread

Acap said I could test sim if I venmoed him $20

Wtf?



I prefer cashapp

                    John Brown | RD | TBB
570 TPE, 6'3, 204 lbs.
S67 - Drafted 1OA by the Nevada Battleborn
S68 - SMJHL All-Star
S68 - Drafted 6OA by the Tampa Bay Barracuda
S69 - SMJHL All-Star
S69 - SMJHL All Defense Team
S69 - Alexis Metzler Award
S70 - SMJHL All-Star

S66 Damian Littleton

      Joseph Weston || Winger || Los Angeles Panthers        
Joseph Weston || Winger || Los Angeles Panthers        
                                  1885 Peak TPE, 6'1", 202 Lbs.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Regular Season Stats:
S49 | MTL | GP: 50 | G: 08 | A: 03 | P: 11 | +/-: 03 | MP: 621
S50 | CAR | GP: 50 | G: 17 | A: 22 | P: 39 | +/-: 02 | MP: 766
S51 | CAR | GP: 50 | G: 20 | A: 28 | P: 48 | +/-: 25 | MP: 807
S52 | CAR | GP: 50 | G: 19 | A: 20 | P: 39 | +/-: 08 | MP: 957
S53 | CGY | GP: 50 | G: 10 | A: 19 | P: 29 | +/-: 11 | TOI: 17:06
S54 | CGY | GP: 50 | G: 06 | A: 14 | P: 20 | +/-: -6 | TOI: 17:17
S55 | CGY | GP: 50 | G: 12 | A: 17 | P: 29 | +/-: 15 | TOI: 16:57
S56 | CGY | GP: 50 | G: 17 | A: 29 | P: 46 | +/-: 44 | TOI: 18:33
S57 | CGY | GP: 66 | G: 28 | A: 27 | P: 55 | +/-: 33 | TOI: 18:57
S58 | CGY | GP: 66 | G: 28 | A: 28 | P: 56 | +/-: 31 | TOI: 20:19
S59 | CGY | GP: 66 | G: 31 | A: 42 | P: 73 | +/-: 31 | TOI: 22:15
S60 | CGY | GP: 66 | G: 28 | A: 31 | P: 59 | +/-: 27 | TOI: 22:09
S61 | CGY | GP: 66 | G: 36 | A: 35 | P: 71 | +/-: 13 | TOI: 21:45
S62 | CGY | GP: 66 | G: 25 | A: 44 | P: 69 | +/-: 12 | TOI: 21:19
S63 | TOR | GP: 66 | G: 11 | A: 27 | P: 38 | +/-: -15 | TOI: 19:40
S64 | LAP  | GP: 66 | G: 18 | A: 28 | P: 46 | +/-: 19 | TOI: 18:11
S65 | LAP  | GP: 66 | G: 14 | A: 24 | P: 38 | +/-: 21 | TOI: 17:53
S66 | LAP | GP: TBD | G: TBD | A: TBD | P: TBD | +/-: TBD | TOI: TBD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Awards:
S49 Montreal Militia Four Star Cup Champions
S50 Carolina Kraken Four Star Cup Champions
S50 Zach Miller Trophy Nomination
S50 Vyacheslav Onoprienko Trophy
S50 WJC USA Bronze Medal
S50 & S51 Carolina Kraken Assistant Captain
S51 SMJHL All-Star
S51 Laurifer Trophy
S52 Carolina Kraken Captain
S52 WJC USA Captain
S53 SHL All-Rookie Team
S54 Calgary Dragons Assistant Captain
S56-S58 Calgary Dragons Assistant Captain
S59-S63 Calgary Dragons Captain
S59 SHL All-Star Game
S60 SHL All-Star Game
S61 SHL All-Star Game
S63 United States of America IIHF Gold Medal
S63 SHL All-Star Game
S65 Challenge Cup Champion


|| ||
| |

Right, and this is where I think you have strayed from the point I was making slightly. I have done the sim testing grind (mostly in other leagues) and I am fine with it going. Take away the capability for us to sim through the league file, and ideally take away any possibility of us being able to recreate a league file. That can all go, along with any culture of obligatory test simming in the name of optimisation.

But without the capability to explore the sim engine even slightly (without any league file - or recreation thereof - involved) we are in a position where anyone who offers any build advice to others who request it are under immediate suspicion. Every keen rookie who wants to earn, get involved more, and try to make a player who succeeds in the league has to be met with "idk, just guess" when asking for advice. I don't think that will be healthy for the league in the long term.

I think this is the most important point. It feels like there should be a discussion for a middle ground where GMs aren't spending all their energy finding ways to perfect their team, but can still learn about the engine. Right now it feels like it won't be possible to learn anything about the engine unless you spend the next 10 seasons GMing to see a decent sample size of what works and what doesn't, or you play NHL saves in FHM 8 to familiarize yourself with builds/tactics/power levels that are probably not applicable to the SHL.


I don't have a perfect answer for how to reach that middle ground. Maybe there could be an unbiased sim testing committee (with people from multiple teams) that can do some general tests for builds/tactics and publish their findings for everyone to see?

This committee can also play a large role in steering the conversation around builds to ensure there's healthy variation. For example, instead of trying to find the one best build for all situations, they could try to answer questions like:

What are the attributes that contribute to playmaking?
How do you build a defensively responsible center?
Is there a viable way to build a speedy player that largely ignores defense?
Can you feasibly build a defenseman that specializes in puck possession and controlled zone entries?
What is the in-sim difference between a goalie focused on positioning and one that is more unorthodox?

Although the answers to the first two questions seem obvious, that's only with the context of how hockey works in real life. We all know that FHM did not make a perfect engine, and there are definitely going to be counter intuitive findings.


Back in the STHS days (before 40 passing), I remember there used to be build guides about common pitfalls to avoid and how to build viable players in each type of style. That's all I really want for the new sim engine.

Signatures by Vulfzilla, Jepox, Jess, rum_ham, Ragnar, and myself

 

Binko Koivu | S64 D | Colorado Raptors | Atlanta Inferno


Guy Zheng | S46 D -> F | Atlanta Inferno | United Kingdom | 2134 Peak TPE | Retired
Birthplace: United Kingdom
Height: 6' 3"
Weight: 215 lbs
Number: 40
───────────────────────────────────────────────────
Trophies, Awards, and Medals:
S46 | KEL | Quilha Agante Trophy (SMJHL Top Defenseman)
S47 | NEW | Ryan Jesster Nominee (SHL Best Rookie)
S47 | NEW | All Rookie Team
S47 | GB  | IIHF Gold
S49 | GB  | IIHF Silver
S52 | GB  | IIHF Gold
S53 | GB  | IIHF Bronze
S54 | GB  | IIHF Silver
S55 | GB  | IIHF Gold
───────────────────────────────────────────────────
SMJHL Career Statistics:
S45 | KEL | GP: 50 | G: 7 | A: 24 | P: 31 | ATOI: 20.61 | HIT: 37 | SB: 51 | +/-: -14
S46 | KEL | GP: 50 | G: 10 | A: 32 | P: 42 | ATOI: 21.87 | HIT: 27 | SB: 49 | +/-: 19
───────────────────────────────────────────────────
SMJHL Playoffs Statistics:
S45 | KEL | GP: 4 | G: 0 | A: 0 | P: 0 | ATOI: 21.80 | HIT: 2 | SB: 4 | +/-: -5
S45 | KEL | GP: 18 | G: 2 | A: 13 | P: 15 | ATOI: 22.07 | HIT: 7 | SB: 24 | +/-: -5
───────────────────────────────────────────────────
SHL Career Statistics:
S47 | NEW | GP: 50 | G: 5 | A: 22 | P: 27 | ATOI: 22.76 | HIT: 45 | SB: 89 | +/-: -9
S48 | NEW | GP: 50 | G: 5 | A: 19 | P: 24 | ATOI: 21.72 | HIT: 44 | SB: 53 | +/-: -1
S49 | NEW | GP: 50 | G: 7 | A: 21 | P: 28 | ATOI: 21.62 | HIT: 45 | SB: 55 | +/-: 21
───────────────────────────────────────────────────
SHL Playoffs Statistics:
S49 | NEW | GP: 15 | G: 4 | A: 3 | P: 7 | ATOI: 21.96 | HIT: 11 | SB: 15 | +/-: 12
───────────────────────────────────────────────────
Transactions:
S45 | KEL | SMJHL Draft | 15th Overall
S45 | KEL | Contract | $3M AAV, 1 Season
S46 | NEW | SHL Draft | 15th Overall
S46 | NEW | Contract | $3M AAV, 3 Seasons
S49 | NEW | Contract | $5M AAV, 2 Seasons

Right, and this is where I think you have strayed from the point I was making slightly. I have done the sim testing grind (mostly in other leagues) and I am fine with it going. Take away the capability for us to sim through the league file, and ideally take away any possibility of us being able to recreate a league file. That can all go, along with any culture of obligatory test simming in the name of optimisation.

But without the capability to explore the sim engine even slightly (without any league file - or recreation thereof - involved) we are in a position where anyone who offers any build advice to others who request it are under immediate suspicion. Every keen rookie who wants to earn, get involved more, and try to make a player who succeeds in the league has to be met with "idk, just guess" when asking for advice. I don't think that will be healthy for the league in the long term.

I think this is the most important point. It feels like there should be a discussion for a middle ground where GMs aren't spending all their energy finding ways to perfect their team, but can still learn about the engine. Right now it feels like it won't be possible to learn anything about the engine unless you spend the next 10 seasons GMing to see a decent sample size of what works and what doesn't, or you play NHL saves in FHM 8 to familiarize yourself with builds/tactics/power levels that are probably not applicable to the SHL.


I don't have a perfect answer for how to reach that middle ground. Maybe there could be an unbiased sim testing committee (with people from multiple teams) that can do some general tests for builds/tactics and publish their findings for everyone to see?

This committee can also play a large role in steering the conversation around builds to ensure there's healthy variation. For example, instead of trying to find the one best build for all situations, they could try to answer questions like:

What are the attributes that contribute to playmaking?
How do you build a defensively responsible center?
Is there a viable way to build a speedy player that largely ignores defense?
Can you feasibly build a defenseman that specializes in puck possession and controlled zone entries?
What is the in-sim difference between a goalie focused on positioning and one that is more unorthodox?

Although the answers to the first two questions seem obvious, that's only with the context of how hockey works in real life. We all know that FHM did not make a perfect engine, and there are definitely going to be counter intuitive findings.


Back in the STHS days (before 40 passing), I remember there used to be build guides about common pitfalls to avoid and how to build viable players in each type of style. That's all I really want for the new sim engine.

Exactly. Just to draw attention to one of RED's points:

That's a legitimate concern that I'll concede, but for other reasons than the ones you've mentioned. I see the risk here more in the fact that there clearly is a knowledge gap between teams/GMs at this point even without test simming, and it will be harder for the inexperienced GMs to catch up without test simming as one of their tools. That's why we need publicly available resources and essentially databases where people share their sim knowledge that are available to everyone, and I think it's fair to doubt that we'll get that anytime soon.

People sharing useful sim knowledge isn't doubtful, it's impossible to do so in a (legally) provable way. I will continue to ask my GMs for build advice - they know more about the sim than me, spent draft capital to acquire my player, I want the team to do well, etc. - and unless the SHL introduces a new rule saying its members are supposed to be deliberately unhelpful when other members ask for build advice, there are two potential (legal) strategies to follow: give build advice based on previous sim knowledge, or guess blindly given that the sim has changed.

I imagine most users/GMs will opt for the first option, and as series-based sports games rarely overhaul their engine in such a way that a large number of attributes go from good to bad or vice versa, this advice will probably still be largely good. Teams with a lot of sim knowledge will likely therefore continue to build according to the same logic - which is the actual reason teams like Hamilton were consistently good anyway, not test simming.

The concept of a witch hunt is a baying mob demanding severe justice based on unprovable accusations. Teams that are known for sim testing being accused of sim testing in a league that allows sim testing isn't a witch hunt. It's a few snarky comments based on sound logic. I believe this ban has the potential to result in actual witch hunts, with real potential punishments.... if results fall a certain way.

You mean you foresee teams/people being punished for "test simming" without any hard evidence, just because the mob demands it? I have a hard time believing that and it would of course be absolutely wrong. And even if there weren't any punishments for it, I do still believe that we already have that right now when teams like HAM can't win a series without everyone suspecting some sort of foul play. If we'll able to get rid of that I don't know, but I doubt it can get any worse. I see the paranoia actually going down with this, not up.

You talk about players making "choices" and "decisions". Both words imply a level of knowledge surrounding the decision at hand, and a lack of sim knowledge in the community means that just isn't possible here. These are now guesses, or arbitrary decisions - is handing agency to the players to make consequential guesses really a satisfying user experience?

The options aren't just "players knowing nothing" and "players knowing everything", there is a biiiiiig middle ground here that we are looking to occupy. And it's absolutely possible to give players some guidelines and information on the attributes available without doing what we've been doing in recent years, which was brute force testing individual attributes into oblivion to determine the optional marginal gains for each attribute at each point of the scale to the point where everyone more or less feels compelled to build the same way.

Right, and this is where I think you have strayed from the point I was making slightly. I have done the sim testing grind (mostly in other leagues) and I am fine with it going. Take away the capability for us to sim through the league file, and ideally take away any possibility of us being able to recreate a league file. That can all go, along with any culture of obligatory test simming in the name of optimisation.

But without the capability to explore the sim engine even slightly (without any league file - or recreation thereof - involved) we are in a position where anyone who offers any build advice to others who request it are under immediate suspicion. Every keen rookie who wants to earn, get involved more, and try to make a player who succeeds in the league has to be met with "idk, just guess" when asking for advice. I don't think that will be healthy for the league in the long term.

I just don't think that's the case. People can still just play FHM regularly or even test stuff in there on the side as long as they don't use the SHL file, so there are still plenty of ways to play around with the engine and try to understand and learn it.

Also I don't see people coming under immediate suspicion for merely offering build advice. But I do admit that this is a tricky point, I for one think that it would be good for the league if there was a less build advice going around in general, fewer templates, fewer cases where GMs essentially create their players builds for them. It's a big part of what has been making the player building process boring despite theoretically having more options than ever.

But I also acknowledge that the players have an inherit desire to spend their TPE as efficiently as possible and to do everything they can to help their team, so this is not a case of GMs or the league forcing it on them, but many specifically seek it out on their own volition.

I'm not quite sure how to tackle that either, but I think one tool to combat that at least a little bit is less clarity about what is optimal and what isn't, If the GMs aren't sure what constitutes an ideal build then it'll become less likely that everyone around the league tells their players to build the same way.

The pure idea that you would want to decompile or identify what is/isn't the most profitable use of TPE or what is good/bad by definition is exactly the attitude that test sim banning was trying to remove. The whole spirit behind this post is the point of the ban in the first place.

Strongly agree with that.

Evan Winter
Edmonton Blizzard
Player Page - Update Page

People can still just play FHM regularly or even test stuff in there on the side as long as they don't use the SHL file, so there are still plenty of ways to play around with the engine

Right, here is where we are getting our wires crossed, I think.

At the time of the ban, I asked a HO member specifically about running the kind of tests you are talking about, ones that do not include the league file. I was told this was not legal.

The entire OP is based on this belief - that playing around with the engine to find things out constitutes sim testing and as such is a bannable offence.

People can still just play FHM regularly or even test stuff in there on the side as long as they don't use the SHL file, so there are still plenty of ways to play around with the engine

Right, here is where we are getting our wires crossed, I think.

At the time of the ban, I asked a HO member specifically about running the kind of tests you are talking about, ones that do not include the league file. I was told this was not legal.

The entire OP is based on this belief - that playing around with the engine to find things out constitutes sim testing and as such is a bannable offence.

It depends on the specifics and where we draw the line between looking for good tactics (which you can do in every regular singleplayer NHL season) and actually trying to break the game by creating your own kinds of files, decompiling or bulk testing specific tactics/builds. There obviously should be a place for the former but not for the latter in my opinion. You are right though that it is tough to enforce either way which is why I'd be hoping that we as a community can be better than that and maybe just... stop looking for exploits for ones and stop trying to break the game that this league relies on? Is that really too much to ask? There are likely gonna be grey areas between what is banned and what isn't and the best course of action for all of us would be if people just didn't try to abuse those grey areas and try to skirt the rules constantly.

It's probably a naive thought but that's why I'm so adamant here not just in defending the test simming ban, but in pushing back against the general mindset behind it that is all about min-maxing, breaking things and maximizing your own selfish gains over the common good.

Evan Winter
Edmonton Blizzard
Player Page - Update Page

Right, here is where we are getting our wires crossed, I think.

At the time of the ban, I asked a HO member specifically about running the kind of tests you are talking about, ones that do not include the league file. I was told this was not legal.

The entire OP is based on this belief - that playing around with the engine to find things out constitutes sim testing and as such is a bannable offence.

It depends on the specifics and where we draw the line between looking for good tactics (which you can do in every regular singleplayer NHL season) and actually trying to break the game by creating your own kinds of files, decompiling or bulk testing specific tactics/builds. There obviously should be a place for the former but not for the latter in my opinion. You are right though that it is tough to enforce either way which is why I'd be hoping that we as a community can be better than that and maybe just... stop looking for exploits for ones and stop trying to break the game that this league relies on? Is that really too much to ask? There are likely gonna be grey areas between what is banned and what isn't and the best course of action for all of us would be if people just didn't try to abuse those grey areas and try to skirt the rules constantly.

It's probably a naive thought but that's why I'm so adamant here not just in defending the test simming ban, but in pushing back against the general mindset behind it that is all about min-maxing, breaking things and maximizing your own selfish gains over the common good.

I think this is a hopeless pursuit, you're relying on the idea that competitiveness = bad. The most effective tactics/strategy in every game (and fundamentally, SHL is a game with strings attached) is to stay just within the rules. A really obvious example of this is the salary cap and minimum contracts. Paying players less money means you can afford a better roster, etc. and so most teams will spend close to the salary cap and will pay their players as little as possible. You're essentially advocating for people to not try and be good within a competitive game, which is fine if you're not invested or you're not a GM, but it just doesn't make sense for someone to spend hours trying to optimally manage everything else that goes into GMing and then intentionally submit suboptimal strats. If a similar ban was instituted in the league where I GM, I would do whatever form of testing/research into the game they considered legal.

I'm on board with the test simming ban. During the covid days test simming was a sort of time-filling blessing since there was fuck all else to do, but personally getting back to work and having less time to devote to hobbies, I would rather use that time doing other things than sitting at the computer running dozens of tests trying to figure something out. I still maintain the biggest predictor of team success is more about having a high TPE roster (F>D>G) with a lot of players who stick together over time to build chemistry, and coaching/strats didn't much matter if you didn't have that - whether that is something that will change in FHM8 ... I don't know because I can't test any more lol.

      S76 SMJHL DRAFT 3RD OVERALL PICK     
        S77 SHL DRAFT 4TH OVERALL PICK         
                     IIHF TEAM NORWAY