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NJBadApple · 02-22-2023, 04:35 PM

Lol

***SpartanGibbles*** · 02-22-2023, 04:41 PM

League couldnt handle me increasing my career playoff points by 50%

vic03 · 02-22-2023, 04:45 PM

02-22-2023, 04:35 PMNJBadApple Wrote: Lol

all our hard work...

Vulfzilla · 02-22-2023, 04:47 PM

classic

**RomanesEuntDomus** · 02-22-2023, 06:11 PM

Maybe it's just me but I think the collateral damage done by big bulk re-sims like this is bigger than the damage we'd get from having a round played with one cycle of updates missing. I'd understand it more if the mistake had been limited to some teams but not others, like if teams play with scrambled lines, had their back-ups in or updates were missing for just them but not their opponent.

Even if some teams are younger/more active than others and benefit more from updates, I don't think the effect is big enough to warrant such a drastic response, unless there are other bigger picture problems that could come into play later due to us using a "wrong" file.

***CampinKiller*** · 02-22-2023, 06:19 PM

What RED said

**The__Y-man__100** · 02-22-2023, 06:33 PM

The fact that it took multiple days to realize is shocking. I understand human error is unavoidable and no one is perfect, but how was this not discovered sooner?

First ever Yukon Malamute draft pick (1st overall S65)

Fluw · 02-22-2023, 07:00 PM

02-22-2023, 06:11 PMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: Maybe it's just me but I think the collateral damage done by big bulk re-sims like this is bigger than the damage we'd get from having a round played with one cycle of updates missing. I'd understand it more if the mistake had been limited to some teams but not others, like if teams play with scrambled lines, had their back-ups in or updates were missing for just them but not their opponent.

Even if some teams are younger/more active than others and benefit more from updates, I don't think the effect is big enough to warrant such a drastic response, unless there are other bigger picture problems that could come into play later due to us using a "wrong" file.

Just to quickly respond to this, when reviewing the file it was more than just one cycle of updates that was missed. In a quick glance over there was a player that had an incorrect build as well, which did not affect every single team. This same player had the correct build in the correct file. For context it was something in the ballpark of 4-5 attribute point differences.

We weighed both options of re-simming, or continuing with the playoffs as is. The latter would have required a full file audit mid playoffs due to that discovery, and goes against precedent that was set in the past surrounding re-sims.

Hope that clears it up a bit. Overall, it's a shitty situation and it affects us on HO as well, noting my team had swept their opponent and was onto the 2nd round already, but this decision was determined to be the best course of action given the circumstances.

***sköldpaddor*** · 02-22-2023, 08:02 PM

02-22-2023, 06:33 PMThe__Y-man__100 Wrote: The fact that it took multiple days to realize is shocking. I understand human error is unavoidable and no one is perfect, but how was this not discovered sooner?

To be fair, it was not even two full days (game 1 sim, when this first happened, was simmed at 3pm on Monday. The absolute earliest anyone could have discovered this was after that sim, and it was brought to us before noon today, so we’re talking less than 48 hours). There isn’t really an ongoing audit process that happens every day; it was caught when it was because GMs were looking at their own player builds. I’m not really sure there’s time for it to be practical to actively audit the file every day during playoffs, but I think it’s a good thing it was noticed four games into the first round and not any later.

Also, not in direct reply to this post but in regard to others - if we kept simming with this file, we were either committed to going the entire playoffs without everyone’s final update of the season, OR someone would have had to have audited the entire file for errors and re-input all of the updates for an entire cycle. There really were no great options here, but we chose the precedented path that we felt was both more fair and required the least amount of “making people do the same work twice.”

***Gwdjohnson*** · 02-23-2023, 12:34 AM

02-22-2023, 04:23 PMSecondSucks22 Wrote: @Gwdjohnson gets a 1 week forum posting ban

and you get punished for tampering

**OrbitingDeath** · 02-23-2023, 07:01 AM

02-22-2023, 06:11 PMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: Maybe it's just me but I think the collateral damage done by big bulk re-sims like this is bigger than the damage we'd get from having a round played with one cycle of updates missing. I'd understand it more if the mistake had been limited to some teams but not others, like if teams play with scrambled lines, had their back-ups in or updates were missing for just them but not their opponent.

Even if some teams are younger/more active than others and benefit more from updates, I don't think the effect is big enough to warrant such a drastic response, unless there are other bigger picture problems that could come into play later due to us using a "wrong" file.

This exactly.

adamantium · 02-23-2023, 09:32 AM

i'm gonna blow up da moon

sigs by me bitch

***sköldpaddor*** · 02-23-2023, 10:04 AM

02-23-2023, 07:01 AMOrbitingDeath Wrote: This exactly.

I do want to stress again that yes, there are bigger problems that would be caused by continuing to use that file. To continue using that file, we would have had to have either:
- committed fully to no one having their last update of the season in for the entire playoffs (it wasn’t just “a few teams” it was all of them)
- audidted the file to put all of them in all over again plus some other errors that were in the file other than the missing updates

There were no good options here. The resim was the precedent that has been set in the past, and is also the way that didn’t require us to completely audit the file and make the file team re-do an entire update cycle of work. I am also sorry that people have lost some stats, but continuing to use the wrong file was not a viable option.

Leatherneckmike · 02-23-2023, 01:50 PM

02-22-2023, 08:02 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: To be fair, it was not even two full days (game 1 sim, when this first happened, was simmed at 3pm on Monday. The absolute earliest anyone could have discovered this was after that sim, and it was brought to us before noon today, so we’re talking less than 48 hours). There isn’t really an ongoing audit process that happens every day; it was caught when it was because GMs were looking at their own player builds. I’m not really sure there’s time for it to be practical to actively audit the file every day during playoffs, but I think it’s a good thing it was noticed four games into the first round and not any later.

Also, not in direct reply to this post but in regard to others - if we kept simming with this file, we were either committed to going the entire playoffs without everyone’s final update of the season, OR someone would have had to have audited the entire file for errors and re-input all of the updates for an entire cycle. There really were no great options here, but we chose the precedented path that we felt was both more fair and required the least amount of “making people do the same work twice.”

Considering the situtation you got put it in, HO did the right thing. No question.

Let's say you kept going partway through round 1 and put in the updates. What happens when Team A is better than Team B but ran out of games AFTER the update. Then suddenly it's the wrong call because team A should have won the series, look what they did AFTER the updates.

As far as the auditing goes, im not sure how FHM works (wanna say that first). We do have a channel in PBE simming with last change made and before we do file work we make sure that change is made and we react to it to let the others know we saw it made.

EX: I create player X. I write that down as "last change created player X" the next person looks for player X.

Perhaps you already have that and i'm just being redundant. But if you dont, just an idea to write down to take a extra step to attempt to prevent this in the future Smile

PremierBromanov · 02-23-2023, 01:56 PM

02-22-2023, 06:11 PMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: Maybe it's just me but I think the collateral damage done by big bulk re-sims like this is bigger than the damage we'd get from having a round played with one cycle of updates missing. I'd understand it more if the mistake had been limited to some teams but not others, like if teams play with scrambled lines, had their back-ups in or updates were missing for just them but not their opponent.

Even if some teams are younger/more active than others and benefit more from updates, I don't think the effect is big enough to warrant such a drastic response, unless there are other bigger picture problems that could come into play later due to us using a "wrong" file.

what's the damage exactly? The sim might as well not exist in my mind. Sorry we got to peak into the abyss, but that was a mistake. Repeat first down.

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