10-07-2020, 09:27 PMFitted2106 Wrote: This is the dumbest rule ever
I get the agitator enforcer thing but fuck some teams have 4 playmakers
Aboilsh RULES AND CAPS
I somewhat agree with this take for juniors where you have more players and also the WJC where there are even 4 lines and 4 pairings. A middle ground could be increasing it to 4 in the SMJHL.
10-07-2020, 09:27 PMFitted2106 Wrote: This is the dumbest rule ever
I get the agitator enforcer thing but fuck some teams have 4 playmakers
Aboilsh RULES AND CAPS
I somewhat agree with this take for juniors where you have more players and also the WJC where there are even 4 lines and 4 pairings. A middle ground could be increasing it to 4 in the SMJHL.
I say increase the cap in juniors make it more like real life when someone whos older
Is much better.
3rd year 425
4th year 500
5th year 600
10-08-2020, 10:57 AMmastersheep Wrote: I somewhat agree with this take for juniors where you have more players and also the WJC where there are even 4 lines and 4 pairings. A middle ground could be increasing it to 4 in the SMJHL.
I say increase the cap in juniors make it more like real life when someone whos older
Is much better.
3rd year 425
4th year 500
5th year 600
The cap shouldn't be raised imo. The issue isn't the SMJHL, it's the fact that SHL players at 600-700 TPE usually get torn apart.
10-08-2020, 11:47 AMFitted2106 Wrote: I say increase the cap in juniors make it more like real life when someone whos older
Is much better.
3rd year 425
4th year 500
5th year 600
The cap shouldn't be raised imo. The issue isn't the SMJHL, it's the fact that SHL players at 600-700 TPE usually get torn apart.
We shouldn't be encouraging players to stay down longer. We should be focusing on making playing in the SHL more accessable for players would aren't max earners.
Credit to Copenhagen, Wasty, FlappyGiraffe, InciteHysteria, and caltroit_red_flames
10-08-2020, 12:15 PMboom Wrote: The cap shouldn't be raised imo. The issue isn't the SMJHL, it's the fact that SHL players at 600-700 TPE usually get torn apart.
We shouldn't be encouraging players to stay down longer. We should be focusing on making playing in the SHL more accessable for players would aren't max earners.
Pretty much. In an ideal world imo, everyone in the J would be shuffled out after 3 seasons, with some lower earners staying down for 4. The problem is that when players have the option to either be stars for the SMJHL team or get their shit pushed in plugging away on the third line of their SHL team, the choice is clear. It's also not viable for GMs to call their players up after three seasons if they aren't max earners. 800 is the new 600 in terms of baseline viability unless they have really good linemates to help them.
10-08-2020, 10:43 AMhonkerrs Wrote: all these are self reports so far lmao. like whats the point of the stupid rule if HO, or whoever is supposed to, are not even checking? makes zero sense..
Hi there, thank you for the feedback but this is untrue as the KEL instance, the first discovered, was not a self report.
10-08-2020, 02:27 PM(This post was last modified: 10-08-2020, 02:34 PM by honkerrs.)
10-08-2020, 01:43 PMACapitalChicago Wrote:
10-08-2020, 10:43 AMhonkerrs Wrote: all these are self reports so far lmao. like whats the point of the stupid rule if HO, or whoever is supposed to, are not even checking? makes zero sense..
Hi there, thank you for the feedback but this is untrue as the KEL instance, the first discovered, was not a self report.
Missed that one but still doesn't excuse the fact that the KEL lines were like that since Day 1 of the J sim after going back through the files that were posted. That wasn't caught until 10/6 after 3 preseason files and 8 regular season files. I highly doubt the TOR one would've ever been caught either if it wasn't for ml and ursin being extremely honest GMs so the SHL HO isn't checking either probably.
No one cares because so far because only J teams and TOR are doing it to our knowledge but imagine if it was like HAM or some other top team. People would be flipping out. If you make a rule should probably check it often before a shitshow occurs is all I'm trying to make known
10-08-2020, 01:43 PMACapitalChicago Wrote: Hi there, thank you for the feedback but this is untrue as the KEL instance, the first discovered, was not a self report.
Missed that one but still doesn't excuse the fact that the KEL lines were like that since Day 1 of the J sim after going back through the files that were posted. That wasn't caught until 10/6 after 3 preseason files and 8 regular season files. I highly doubt the TOR one would've ever been caught either if it wasn't for ml and ursin being extremely honest GMs so the SHL HO isn't checking either probably.
No one cares because so far because only J teams and TOR are doing it to our knowledge but imagine if it was like HAM or some other top team. People would be flipping out. If you make a rule should probably check it often before a shitshow occurs is all I'm trying to make known
I mean, of course a team that's been lambasted for cheating in the past would be seen as cheating compared to teams self-reporting. If Hamilton self-reported they'd get funny like "Hamilton at it again" but the honesty wouldn't be ignored. Toronto's honesty, especially, makes it hard to be upset when it's a short oversight. Same with San Fran missing back up games, they were open about missing it so it's just meming.
The idea that HO should constantly be checking to ensure that a lineup is legal, i.e. before every sim, is unrealistic. To have a group of people already working to run the site/checking other rules being expected to separately check 30+ teams worth of lines for minor infractions seems overkill. They already caught one instance of it, so there are checks in place. Is the argument here that fair play and making the league more fair in terms of min/maxing every player into the same rule should just be allowed? Because I don't see how you expect to them to check a every team before every sim but also call it a dumb--the point of the rule is deterrence and to give them recourse for when something like this is caught. Expecting them to check over every single GM's work each day to make sure it's perfect is super unrealistic.
10-08-2020, 03:20 PM(This post was last modified: 10-08-2020, 03:44 PM by honkerrs.)
10-08-2020, 02:55 PMMazatt Wrote:
10-08-2020, 02:27 PMhonkerrs Wrote: Missed that one but still doesn't excuse the fact that the KEL lines were like that since Day 1 of the J sim after going back through the files that were posted. That wasn't caught until 10/6 after 3 preseason files and 8 regular season files. I highly doubt the TOR one would've ever been caught either if it wasn't for ml and ursin being extremely honest GMs so the SHL HO isn't checking either probably.
No one cares because so far because only J teams and TOR are doing it to our knowledge but imagine if it was like HAM or some other top team. People would be flipping out. If you make a rule should probably check it often before a shitshow occurs is all I'm trying to make known
I mean, of course a team that's been lambasted for cheating in the past would be seen as cheating compared to teams self-reporting. If Hamilton self-reported they'd get funny like "Hamilton at it again" but the honesty wouldn't be ignored. Toronto's honesty, especially, makes it hard to be upset when it's a short oversight. Same with San Fran missing back up games, they were open about missing it so it's just meming.
The idea that HO should constantly be checking to ensure that a lineup is legal, i.e. before every sim, is unrealistic. To have a group of people already working to run the site/checking other rules being expected to separately check 30+ teams worth of lines for minor infractions seems overkill. They already caught one instance of it, so there are checks in place. Is the argument here that fair play and making the league more fair in terms of min/maxing every player into the same rule should just be allowed? Because I don't see how you expect to them to check a every team before every sim but also call it a dumb--the point of the rule is deterrence and to give them recourse for when something like this is caught. Expecting them to check over every single GM's work each day to make sure it's perfect is super unrealistic.
I call the rule dumb because I don't think it really is that game breaking personally, especially for cases like this, but that's for another thread.
Point is, if having more than 3 of a particular role is so broken that we need a rule for it then having 8 sim days of an advantage just can't be pushed aside. Not catching for multiple days could have a major implication on the season having gone 15+ games with the assumed "game breaking" tactics. Carolina played Anchorage yesterday and won. Anchorage has also lost to Kelowna. Well if the J was like the SHL and we were fighting for playoffs and missed by one or two games. Well, sucks for us. At least they got punished half pay though!!! (disclaimer - anc is not mad at these teams using these roles, just providing something that could happen).
This is just like the trade tracker being awful all over again, except worse because no job is created for it. There are rules to punish it but not anything to actually prevent it from people taking advantage. I'm all for creating jobs for someone to check this if HO can't handle more work. There's like what, 6 people in each HO? Maybe its the back up simmers job? Should be plenty imo but create a job if they must
10-08-2020, 02:55 PMMazatt Wrote: I mean, of course a team that's been lambasted for cheating in the past would be seen as cheating compared to teams self-reporting. If Hamilton self-reported they'd get funny like "Hamilton at it again" but the honesty wouldn't be ignored. Toronto's honesty, especially, makes it hard to be upset when it's a short oversight. Same with San Fran missing back up games, they were open about missing it so it's just meming.
The idea that HO should constantly be checking to ensure that a lineup is legal, i.e. before every sim, is unrealistic. To have a group of people already working to run the site/checking other rules being expected to separately check 30+ teams worth of lines for minor infractions seems overkill. They already caught one instance of it, so there are checks in place. Is the argument here that fair play and making the league more fair in terms of min/maxing every player into the same rule should just be allowed? Because I don't see how you expect to them to check a every team before every sim but also call it a dumb--the point of the rule is deterrence and to give them recourse for when something like this is caught. Expecting them to check over every single GM's work each day to make sure it's perfect is super unrealistic.
I call the rule dumb because I don't think it really is that game breaking personally, especially for cases like this, but that's for another thread.
Point is, if having more than 3 of a particular role is so broken that we need a rule for it then having 8 sim days of an advantage just can't be pushed aside. Not catching for multiple days could have a major implication on the season having gone 15+ games with the assumed "game breaking" tactics. Carolina played Anchorage yesterday and won. Anchorage has also lost to Kelowna. Well if the J was like the SHL and we were fighting for playoffs and missed by one or two games. Well, sucks for us. At least they got punished half pay though!!! (disclaimer - anc is not mad at these teams using these roles, just providing something that could happen).
This is just like the trade tracker being awful all over again, except worse because no job is created for it. There are rules to punish it but not anything to actually prevent it from people taking advantage. I'm all for creating jobs for someone to check this if HO can't handle more work. There's like what, 6 people in each HO? Maybe its the back up simmers job? Should be plenty imo but create a job if they must
I think the biggest issue isn't how the rule is enforced, or not having a job in place to account for the rule, or how hard it is to check, but the rule itself. The agitator/shadow rule was changed because it created an unfair environment and lowered production, and took all strategy out of the game. Extending that to two-way d-men, playmakers, etc. is a reach of power that makes no sense. Why does the league feel the need to limit the way a player passes? There has been nothing demonstrably wrong with those abilities to warrant limitations, so why did they need to be changed preemptively?
I think the reason tehy say is wanting to "Diversify the roles" and not limit people into the 5 same roles every time, but that makes more issues where if you have 5 guys who really like to pass, they're SOL because only 3 can be playmakers, or you can only have 3 two-way defencemen so if you want to have that and people got there before you, you're fucked. It limites roles a lot more than it creates, imo.
10-08-2020, 02:55 PMMazatt Wrote: I mean, of course a team that's been lambasted for cheating in the past would be seen as cheating compared to teams self-reporting. If Hamilton self-reported they'd get funny like "Hamilton at it again" but the honesty wouldn't be ignored. Toronto's honesty, especially, makes it hard to be upset when it's a short oversight. Same with San Fran missing back up games, they were open about missing it so it's just meming.
The idea that HO should constantly be checking to ensure that a lineup is legal, i.e. before every sim, is unrealistic. To have a group of people already working to run the site/checking other rules being expected to separately check 30+ teams worth of lines for minor infractions seems overkill. They already caught one instance of it, so there are checks in place. Is the argument here that fair play and making the league more fair in terms of min/maxing every player into the same rule should just be allowed? Because I don't see how you expect to them to check a every team before every sim but also call it a dumb--the point of the rule is deterrence and to give them recourse for when something like this is caught. Expecting them to check over every single GM's work each day to make sure it's perfect is super unrealistic.
I call the rule dumb because I don't think it really is that game breaking personally, especially for cases like this, but that's for another thread.
Point is, if having more than 3 of a particular role is so broken that we need a rule for it then having 8 sim days of an advantage just can't be pushed aside. Not catching for multiple days could have a major implication on the season having gone 15+ games with the assumed "game breaking" tactics. Carolina played Anchorage yesterday and won. Anchorage has also lost to Kelowna. Well if the J was like the SHL and we were fighting for playoffs and missed by one or two games. Well, sucks for us. At least they got punished half pay though!!! (disclaimer - anc is not mad at these teams using these roles, just providing something that could happen).
This is just like the trade tracker being awful all over again, except worse because no job is created for it. There are rules to punish it but not anything to actually prevent it from people taking advantage. I'm all for creating jobs for someone to check this if HO can't handle more work. There's like what, 6 people in each HO? Maybe its the back up simmers job? Should be plenty imo but create a job if they must
The rule is in place, because some GMs have shown they couldn't handle the "hey don't do this" talk we had. The fact is the over 3 doesn't "break" the sim is a good thing. We had to make a rule more restrictive because when we didn't we found GMs taking advantage of the spirit of the sim. I understand where you are coming from, but this wasn't something we put into place just because.
We still would like to live on the honor system for some of these and we encourage the simmer to check, but let's be honest they do a lot as it is.
Also, yes there are multiple members of HO, but it is not a requirement to own and work in FHM to be in Head Office. I'm not going to ask them to comb through the file every day to make sure GMs are doing their jobs and being compliant with the rules. We are however still working on setting up the parameters for an Audit team, which would help with this as well.
10-08-2020, 10:03 PM(This post was last modified: 10-08-2020, 10:04 PM by honkerrs.)
10-08-2020, 08:02 PMSDCore Wrote: We are however still working on setting up the parameters for an Audit team, which would help with this as well.
Perfect! Thanks, hopefully it comes soon. All for more jobs and hopefully it comes before a team goes under the radar and gets more than half the site mad by going multiple sims not following the rules
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