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DELIRIVM · 11-24-2020, 03:08 AM

11-24-2020, 02:38 AMSlashACM Wrote:
11-24-2020, 01:20 AMEvok Wrote: no offense to you cain, and i know im not the perfect girl either, but everyone saying you didn't get any offer only cause you were questionable sometime were fucking wrong

I mean I was on the back half of my career, afaik you're a max earner? Something is seriously messed up in the league where a top tier goalie isnt extremely sought after by most teams. Whether its the cap or the update scale I don't know, but we've pretty much all reached the conclusion that something is wrong

Agreed. The only excuse for not reaching out to a goaltender that is a top tier max earner is if you have a GM as your goalie or a similar type player in net.

Duff101 · 11-24-2020, 04:40 AM

11-24-2020, 03:08 AMDELIRIVM Wrote:
11-24-2020, 02:38 AMSlashACM Wrote: I mean I was on the back half of my career, afaik you're a max earner? Something is seriously messed up in the league where a top tier goalie isnt extremely sought after by most teams. Whether its the cap or the update scale I don't know, but we've pretty much all reached the conclusion that something is wrong

Agreed. The only excuse for not reaching out to a goaltender that is a top tier max earner is if you have a GM as your goalie or a similar type player in net.

Honestly though like if I get into the mind of a GM here like I know a few things. At the end of the day the fact of the matter is this: a top earner goalie isn't worth nearly as much in regards to game performance as a top earner skater, or a line of strong mid tier earners. FHM rewards better teams with more shots on goal, meaning goalies on terrible teams matter significantly less as sheer shot volume means that even if a goalie has the best season ever in the FHM era of sv% and gets .950 but faces 40 shots a game (not unreasonable for a mediocre-bad team) their GAA will still be 2.

(for reference the Red Wings, the worst NHL team by a wide margin had a shot diff of like -5, SFP's last year was somewhere in the range of -41 if I recall)

I hate to play devil's advocate but speaking from how the system is set up my (me being hypothetical GM) money is better spent elsewhere on players that will have a much stronger impact on the game. All I need is like a solid 900-1300 TPE person that can hold me over until the next one is ready.

Also quick sidenote there seems to be a general lack of a free agency culture, I don't see many big splash signings or anything.

Credit to Geck, Ragnar and Juni for sigs

BloomeyGB · 11-24-2020, 06:11 AM

The fact that @Evok is still an FA is frankly ridiculous. Teams are missing out on a great goalie.

Luckily I've got a team now

**RomanesEuntDomus** · 11-24-2020, 07:10 AM

Looks like a good start.

Has there been any talk about adjusting the update scale for goalies as well, so that high-TPE goalies are actually worth it again because they actually perform better than their lower TPE-tiers who are just starting their careers?

Samsung virtual assistant · 11-24-2020, 07:46 AM

Someone hire my good friend @Evok right fucking now or ima start throwing these hands

ACapitalChicago · 11-24-2020, 09:31 AM

11-24-2020, 02:14 AMgordieboom Wrote: This won’t solve the issue.

Users should be discouraged to make a goalie. When creating a player/goalie show a clear message that there is a logjam of goalies and mention which positions are less filled.

This already happens. Everyone who created as a goalie receives the following message from the fantastic interns:

"Hey @(USERNAME)

Welcome to the SHL!

There's been a recent overflow of Goalies coming into the league, and the general consensus is that there is too many Goalies and not enough teams. So at this time HO wants to give every one who creates as a goalie the option, now that they know this, to either continue as a Goalie, or recreate as a skater.

Let me know what you would like to do and we'll move forward. If we don't hear back from you in 48 hours we will approve your player as is.

If you have any questions please send me a DM on here or on discord at (INSERT DISCORD) if you'd like help.
Thanks!"

S66 Damian Littleton

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*Count Chocula* · 11-24-2020, 09:50 AM

Why not just raise the cap by 2 million and keep the same rules. Remove the bureaucracy from the equation. All backups play 25% of games regardless of activity. Make GMs budget better.

ztevans · 11-24-2020, 09:51 AM

11-24-2020, 04:40 AMDuff101 Wrote: Honestly though like if I get into the mind of a GM here like I know a few things. At the end of the day the fact of the matter is this: a top earner goalie isn't worth nearly as much in regards to game performance as a top earner skater, or a line of strong mid tier earners. FHM rewards better teams with more shots on goal, meaning goalies on terrible teams matter significantly less as sheer shot volume means that even if a goalie has the best season ever in the FHM era of sv% and gets .950 but faces 40 shots a game (not unreasonable for a mediocre-bad team) their GAA will still be 2.

(for reference the Red Wings, the worst NHL team by a wide margin had a shot diff of like -5, SFP's last year was somewhere in the range of -41 if I recall)

I hate to play devil's advocate but speaking from how the system is set up my (me being hypothetical GM) money is better spent elsewhere on players that will have a much stronger impact on the game. All I need is like a solid 900-1300 TPE person that can hold me over until the next one is ready.

Also quick sidenote there seems to be a general lack of a free agency culture, I don't see many big splash signings or anything.

It's literally just an extra 1M between a 1300 TPE goalie and a 2k goalie, and that's not factoring in possibilities such as hometown discounts. Having someone like @Evok in your LR is worth that mil. More importantly, not having people around who earn at the level is always, always, always going to be a disservice to the league.

I'm not going to knock anyone, because I know that most parties are doing the best they can to solve this problem. I think most GMs are smart enough (and kind enough) to realize trying to Billy Beane the goalie situation is a net loss for the league, and obviously HO is taking steps to fix it.

The sidenote is a funny point to bring up, though - the addition of the seventh salary tier (and other related changes) took place because people wanted the salary cap to matter again. Clearly, it worked - the goalies are just the first to get the squeeze. In that sense ... we can't have our cake and eat it, too.

ACapitalChicago · 11-24-2020, 09:53 AM

11-24-2020, 09:50 AMCount Chocula Wrote: Why not just raise the cap by 2 million and keep the same rules. Remove the bureaucracy from the equation. All backups play 25% of games regardless of activity. Make GMs budget better.

When you say keep the same rules, do you mean the ones prior to this announcement with just a 2 mil cap increase?

S66 Damian Littleton

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***luke*** · 11-24-2020, 09:56 AM

11-24-2020, 09:50 AMCount Chocula Wrote: Why not just raise the cap by 2 million and keep the same rules. Remove the bureaucracy from the equation. All backups play 25% of games regardless of activity. Make GMs budget better.

If we do that, GMs won’t spend that cap on backup goalies. This cap relief is specifically for teams that have active backups. Inactive backups play 12 games, that’s the minimum. For active backups we want them to Atleast play 17 games, then it’s up to the GM to play them more.

***luke*** · 11-24-2020, 09:59 AM

11-24-2020, 07:10 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: Looks like a good start.

Has there been any talk about adjusting the update scale for goalies as well, so that high-TPE goalies are actually worth it again because they actually perform better than their lower TPE-tiers who are just starting their careers?

Kinda, in nours announcement it’s been announced we are talking about the update scale in general, because we need to readjust it. The biggest problem there is that the lower tpe players(550-800) TPE players are a big weakness to SHL teams. We want to fix that, but I’ll also bring this up as well.

Jabs · 11-24-2020, 10:00 AM

Does this mean I can afford more Baconators?

Samsung virtual assistant · 11-24-2020, 10:09 AM

11-24-2020, 09:56 AMluketd Wrote:
11-24-2020, 09:50 AMCount Chocula Wrote: Why not just raise the cap by 2 million and keep the same rules. Remove the bureaucracy from the equation. All backups play 25% of games regardless of activity. Make GMs budget better.

If we do that, GMs won’t spend that cap on backup goalies. This cap relief is specifically for teams that have active backups. Inactive backups play 12 games, that’s the minimum. For active backups we want them to Atleast play 17 games, then it’s up to the GM to play them more.

Ya this, we'll just same "we cant afford two goalies" thingie again and the ones being hurt is yet again the players

**RomanesEuntDomus** · 11-24-2020, 10:22 AM

11-24-2020, 09:59 AMluketd Wrote:
11-24-2020, 07:10 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: Looks like a good start.

Has there been any talk about adjusting the update scale for goalies as well, so that high-TPE goalies are actually worth it again because they actually perform better than their lower TPE-tiers who are just starting their careers?

Kinda, in nours announcement it’s been announced we are talking about the update scale in general, because we need to readjust it. The biggest problem there is that the lower tpe players(550-800) TPE players are a big weakness to SHL teams. We want to fix that, but I’ll also bring this up as well.

Is this the case for goalies as well, not just Skaters? Goalies seem to perform pretty well once they get to the 800-1000 TPE range and that is usually about what an active has once he comes out of juniors, so I don't seen an issue with lower TPE goalies being too uncompetitive under a tougher scale. Although the harshening of the scale would mostly have to take play in the mid-to-higher attribute regions, I agree with that.

***luke*** · 11-24-2020, 10:25 AM

11-24-2020, 10:22 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote:
11-24-2020, 09:59 AMluketd Wrote: Kinda, in nours announcement it’s been announced we are talking about the update scale in general, because we need to readjust it. The biggest problem there is that the lower tpe players(550-800) TPE players are a big weakness to SHL teams. We want to fix that, but I’ll also bring this up as well.

Is this the case for goalies as well, not just Skaters? Goalies seem to perform pretty well once they get to the 800-1000 TPE range and that is usually about what an active has once he comes out of juniors, so I don't seen an issue with lower TPE goalies being too uncompetitive under a tougher scale. Although the harshening of the scale would mostly have to take play in the mid-to-higher attribute regions, I agree with that.

Oh the 550-800 range I was talking about was for skaters not goalies.

For goalies, it’s a little tougher because they are also the product of the team around them. We it’s a bit harder to pinpoint where they would be viable in the SHL level. If you we, looking at goalies like Eller or Samat, so then the question goes to how do we want to shape the goalie update scale so it doesn’t punish teams that don’t have the best teams, while making it possible for goalies to be great on great teams(Jobin on HAM, etc). It’s something we need to look further into and we want to only do this once. We want to make sure we get it right the first time(well, 2nd time, but you get the point)

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