04-04-2022, 03:13 PMACapitalChicago Wrote: The exception does not make the rule. Please name the career J players and how they make up the majority of the SMJHL. Just because people perceive this boogeyman of career J players does not mean that is the standard, nor does it properly address the issues resulting in said career J players and how the SHL is unpalatable to them.
I haven't actually counted but someone said there's 6 on just newfoundland.
NL has 3 players in their 5th season. One has 429 TPE and isn't SHL-viable while not being on the site in a month, one is a former SHL GM who hasn't been here in four months, one is a goalie who allegedly asked to stay down for a fifth season. Outside of that last instance, are there other examples of players who have recreated or stayed down in their 5th season just for the J?
04-04-2022, 03:20 PMGooney Wrote: i don’t know the league well enough to discuss parity issue but i don’t think you do either frankly. everything you listed could be applied to either league. good gms do good, which both hamilton and newfoundland clearly have.
you really want to make this about you don't you bud?
04-04-2022, 03:13 PMWaters Wrote: That’s not what it reads like to me. Saying that nl isn’t hammy junior and then listing all the good things about nl implies that hamilton does not do those things. If you didn’t mean that, it doesn’t look that way.
sorry let me rephrase.
j parity conversation is a different conversation than SHL parity conversation
hope this helps
That’s not what the post I was replying to said, so it does help. Also, I don’t agree. The things that make a team good in SHL and SMJHL are largely similar, and they are the things you listed when you were praising NL. Good trades, good drafting and good locker room. The difference is, while hamilton wins a lot of games (not even true right now, they suck), NL wins almost every game in a league where the smaller theoretical success windows should allow teams to be more even. I believe you guys are working on it, but posts that compare NL favourably to HAM makes it sound like you guys think their dominance isn’t as bad so it’s not as pressing an issue. I think it’s actually much worse.
04-04-2022, 03:20 PMGooney Wrote: i don’t know the league well enough to discuss parity issue but i don’t think you do either frankly. everything you listed could be applied to either league. good gms do good, which both hamilton and newfoundland clearly have.
you really want to make this about you don't you bud?
04-04-2022, 03:20 PMGooney Wrote: i don’t know the league well enough to discuss parity issue but i don’t think you do either frankly. everything you listed could be applied to either league. good gms do good, which both hamilton and newfoundland clearly have.
you really want to make this about you don't you bud?
discussing hamilton vs newfoundland = talking about me. you really got me there lespoles
04-04-2022, 03:14 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: sorry let me rephrase.
j parity conversation is a different conversation than SHL parity conversation
hope this helps
i don’t know the league well enough to discuss parity issue but i don’t think you do either frankly. everything you listed could be applied to either league. good gms do good, which both hamilton and newfoundland clearly have.
I am sorry you do not feel I am qualified to do my job. I recognize that I am constantly learning and figuring new things out about this league even after having been here for several years but I think Nour thought that I was qualified to have these discussions or I do not believe he would’ve brought me into HO.
04-04-2022, 03:20 PMGooney Wrote: i don’t know the league well enough to discuss parity issue but i don’t think you do either frankly. everything you listed could be applied to either league. good gms do good, which both hamilton and newfoundland clearly have.
I am sorry you do not feel I am qualified to do my job. I recognize that I am constantly learning and figuring new things out about this league even after having been here for several years but I think Nour thought that I was qualified to have these discussions or I do not believe he would’ve brought me into HO.
i agree with you though. league parity is a hard issue to tackle but you nailed it with your initial post. good gms do good. other gms need to catch up. i think you are qualified and do a fine job
04-04-2022, 03:14 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: sorry let me rephrase.
j parity conversation is a different conversation than SHL parity conversation
hope this helps
That’s not what the post I was replying to said, so it does help. Also, I don’t agree. The things that make a team good in SHL and SMJHL are largely similar, and they are the things you listed when you were praising NL. Good trades, good drafting and good locker room. The difference is, while hamilton wins a lot of games (not even true right now, they suck), NL wins almost every game in a league where the smaller theoretical success windows should allow teams to be more even. I believe you guys are working on it, but posts that compare NL favourably to HAM makes it sound like you guys think their dominance isn’t as bad so it’s not as pressing an issue. I think it’s actually much worse.
If it makes you feel any better NL is about to lose 8 players in the offseason. SHL teams don't go through anything even remotely similar. If NL can still dominate next season then I'll agree with you. The main issue is Hamilton is able to do it with middling TPE (see last season) while NL has the highest TPE in the J.
04-04-2022, 03:46 PMCampinKiller Wrote: Jess is literally in HO and always on FHM lmao, the suggestion she doesn't know enough about the league is wild
just having a discussion. you’re allowed to question the people who run the site
04-04-2022, 03:56 PM(This post was last modified: 04-04-2022, 03:57 PM by spooked. Edited 1 time in total.)
04-04-2022, 02:46 PMACapitalChicago Wrote:
04-04-2022, 02:31 PMspooked Wrote: Honestly, the J is not a development league anymore. It operates essentially on it's own without much oversight from actual SHL HO/Commish in terms of intention of the league, and the J HO doesn't really seem to want to compromise their own competitiveness to accommodate development style changes from what I saw, now maybe that has changed or maybe they would take some, but I personally never saw much flexibility.
I strongly disagree. The J very much still is a development league, as we have our set goals of development and retainment. Just because we may not develop directly into the SHL does not mean these players are no longer developing at all, and instead speaks to the overall and frequently aforementioned issue that players outright don't want to leave the J. I fail to see how our autonomy and ability to be self-sufficient instead of relying on a different League's head office is a fault, when I instead find our current professional courtesies and conversations helpful and beneficial to all involved. Why should SMJHL HO not have oversight of the SMJHL? Not once, for as far as I've been in SMJHL HO, "not wanted to compromise our own competitiveness to accommodate development style changes" to paraphrase your own words, and I'd be interested in hearing how we've done so in the past. The last update scale changes were not made with the SMJHL's parity or health in mind beyond hoping to result in more callups, which already strongarms our ability to handle competitive balance.
I know you probably didn't mean it this way, but this feels like a slap in the face to call us inflexible when we have done nothing but rewrite the rulebook and restructure our interior departments multiple times over multiple seasons so as to better accommodate the needs of the J.
Yeah, I didn't mean it that way. The "not being a development league anymore" was along the lines of "The J (and it's HO/Staff) is doing so well at making their product good it is actually compromising the SHL itself". It isn't much of a developmental league because there is no incentive to actual move on from it for some/most people. The GM jobs are more approachable, the player aspect is easier/more fun (less grind), etc.
The product the J can put out is easier to make superior because of how quick & approachable it can be, it pulls a lot of weight in helping the league be more engaging more quickly. Now you have some issues to face too, but the inherent advantage of only needing a couple months to be "good", instead of a year or more, makes it very difficult for the SHL to actually compete quickly/incentivize callups. The spread in TPE in the SHL also makes it much harder... These are not really problems that can be solved, just the nature of the J being outright advantaged in those areas. There needs to be more incentive to be called up, but I also don't think the SHL alone can make those changes since early-career SHL players are almost impossible to improve beyond what has already been done barring just kneecapping high tpe players outright or something along those lines.
I think it would be hard to name specific items, but the general attitude I remember was challenging to get anything between SHL to SMJHL HO done if it had any negatives to it for the J. The draft being so delayed is the obvious one cause it came up multiple times, but it is possible that would work as an example. In my opinion there isn't really a need to have the SMJHL Draft so far back, I think it would actually be better from a league perspective to draft the rookies FIRST, and then do the SHL draft... but the SMJHL pushed really hard to make sure the J GMs know the send downs before they draft for competition reasons I assume. Which is funny to me cause a GM could still change their roster after that date if they wanted to, it's not frozen I don't think anywhere in the rules last I looked.
The update scale being done that way was probably within the realm of what I am speaking to as being desirable for the site long term. Things that impact the SHL AND SMJHL should be decided by SHL HO and the Commish basically because it involves the main league, but with input from the SMJHL HO to avoid easily avoidable issues. Honestly speaking, I think the league would be a lot better if the two HO's were basically merged and managed the league from the top down without the division.
04-04-2022, 03:36 PMWaters Wrote: That’s not what the post I was replying to said, so it does help. Also, I don’t agree. The things that make a team good in SHL and SMJHL are largely similar, and they are the things you listed when you were praising NL. Good trades, good drafting and good locker room. The difference is, while hamilton wins a lot of games (not even true right now, they suck), NL wins almost every game in a league where the smaller theoretical success windows should allow teams to be more even. I believe you guys are working on it, but posts that compare NL favourably to HAM makes it sound like you guys think their dominance isn’t as bad so it’s not as pressing an issue. I think it’s actually much worse.
If it makes you feel any better NL is about to lose 8 players in the offseason. SHL teams don't go through anything even remotely similar. If NL can still dominate next season then I'll agree with you. The main issue is Hamilton is able to do it with middling TPE (see last season) while NL has the highest TPE in the J.
we really didn't dominate last season. Most tests I ran showed BAP smoking us. there is still an RNG element to FHM.
04-04-2022, 04:03 PM(This post was last modified: 04-04-2022, 04:07 PM by sve7en. Edited 1 time in total.)
04-04-2022, 03:56 PMspooked Wrote:
04-04-2022, 02:46 PMACapitalChicago Wrote: I strongly disagree. The J very much still is a development league, as we have our set goals of development and retainment. Just because we may not develop directly into the SHL does not mean these players are no longer developing at all, and instead speaks to the overall and frequently aforementioned issue that players outright don't want to leave the J. I fail to see how our autonomy and ability to be self-sufficient instead of relying on a different League's head office is a fault, when I instead find our current professional courtesies and conversations helpful and beneficial to all involved. Why should SMJHL HO not have oversight of the SMJHL? Not once, for as far as I've been in SMJHL HO, "not wanted to compromise our own competitiveness to accommodate development style changes" to paraphrase your own words, and I'd be interested in hearing how we've done so in the past. The last update scale changes were not made with the SMJHL's parity or health in mind beyond hoping to result in more callups, which already strongarms our ability to handle competitive balance.
I know you probably didn't mean it this way, but this feels like a slap in the face to call us inflexible when we have done nothing but rewrite the rulebook and restructure our interior departments multiple times over multiple seasons so as to better accommodate the needs of the J.
I think it would be hard to name specific items, but the general attitude I remember was challenging to get anything between SHL to SMJHL HO done if it had any negatives to it for the J. The draft being so delayed is the obvious one cause it came up multiple times, but it is possible that would work as an example. In my opinion there isn't really a need to have the SMJHL Draft so far back, I think it would actually be better from a league perspective to draft the rookies FIRST, and then do the SHL draft... but the SMJHL pushed really hard to make sure the J GMs know the send downs before they draft for competition reasons I assume. Which is funny to me cause a GM could still change their roster after that date if they wanted to, it's not frozen I don't think anywhere in the rules last I looked.
I was the largest voice for this afaik, but yeah I'd kind of like to know what my team needs are before I draft. It's got nothing to do with competition at all. I don't want to end up in a spot where I make a move and leave Carolina short on actives if I don't have to, or worse have too many players when I could trade up or into the future. It's also not like that was the only option, I mentioned the drafts could be the same weekend if FA was just moved up and took place after the offseason post and before the SHL draft.
Also "I think it would actually be better from a league perspective to draft the rookies FIRST, and then do the SHL draft..." but like, why? I can't think of anything off the top of my head where the J draft affects the SHL's.
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